Male abortion?

[Evales]

This question is directed to people who think that abortion is a right of a woman. That she should have a choice.

If you are going to debate in this topic I would like you to debate within the hypothetical world where the woman has a choice of abortion.

So to continue
If a woman has the right to abort then why does the man not? If a woman chooses to have the baby who are we to force the man to pay child support. To people created this child. How come only one person has the right to remove it?

I propose that men should have the right to abort from a pregnancy. When having sex both partners should know that should they conceive the other has the right of removal just as much as them.

Question for debate:
Should men have the right to abortion?
Why/ Why not?

[guy fawkes]

It is wrong headed,IMO,for a father to disclaim responsibility for his offspring simply because the female in the dance has decided to keep the child. It is not about the man and the woman from the point of birth, but about the child and the child's right and the man's obligation to take care of his mess. The man knew or should have known of the possibility of birth when he carelessly deposited his seed. I am pro choice,but once the choice is made and we have a child, the duty flows to both parents.

She could have become pregnant through lying, tricking or HERSELF being careless. Your point is not valid.

You can use a condom, pill or similar and still get pregnant so the "mess" that happened would not be a valid to call "careless". If we also include the fact that the woman could be lying, for exampel a lesbian woman wanting to get pregnant at the same time getting a guy forcingly having to pay child support..... You get the point.

You can claim special circumstance, but on the whole, nope, forget it, not a valid point. The man has rights to. And They should not be treated the way they are today, that is "unfair" practice, and reverse discrimination.

[Evales]

It is wrong headed,IMO,for a father to disclaim responsibility for his offspring simply because the female in the dance has decided to keep the child. It is not about the man and the woman from the point of birth, but about the child and the child's right and the man's obligation to take care of his mess. The man knew or should have known of the possibility of birth when he carelessly deposited his seed. I am pro choice,but once the choice is made and we have a child, the duty flows to both parents.

She could have become pregnant through lying, tricking or HERSELF being careless. Your point is not valid.

You can use a condom, pill or similar and still get pregnant so the "mess" that happened would not be a valid to call "careless". If we also include the fact that the woman could be lying, for exampel a lesbian woman wanting to get pregnant at the same time getting a guy forcingly having to pay child support..... You get the point.

You can claim special circumstance, but on the whole, nope, forget it, not a valid point. The man has rights to. And They should not be treated the way they are today, that is "unfair" practice, and reverse discrimination.

I'm with you but I would not argue that they could lie I would argue that if the woman has the right to choose why does the man not? Like guy fawkes says they could have used contraception. So either they were extremely careless or they had an accident. In either case they were BOTH careless and or it was BOTH of their accidents. If the man has to bare the thought that a woman has the right to abort his son than why does not the woman have to consider that the man is not obligated to pay for it?

It was both of their mistakes but only one person has a way out.

[Confused]

MODERATOR ACTION

I will be honest with you evales, I wasn't sure it this would be more beneficial in the Right and Wrong forum or the Politics forum. It really hits both. I moved it here but if you would prefer it in the Politics forum, send me a PM.

[JoeyKnothead]

First, I can't tell if I speak from bigotry or chivalry here. I offer it for verification/correction from my peers.

Since the woman risks so much in having a baby, her choice in doing so should not be dependent on what the potential father would have her do here.
The father chose to risk having offspring, regardless of what measures were in place to try not to. (This is where the abstinence only folks are right. Seems it's the only time, but that's a tale for another day.)
The father is typically able to go about his life, while the woman now has a child to raise (typically). If the father is able to earn a living, he should be expected/required to help provide support for the child.

Special cases will require special responses, but for what I think are the 'typical' or 'traditional' cases, I think the above is a reasonable measure.

[Evales]

First, I can't tell if I speak from bigotry or chivalry here. I offer it for verification/correction from my peers.

Since the woman risks so much in having a baby, her choice in doing so should not be dependent on what the potential father would have her do here.
The father chose to risk having offspring, regardless of what measures were in place to try not to. (This is where the abstinence only folks are right. Seems it's the only time, but that's a tale for another day.)
The father is typically able to go about his life, while the woman now has a child to raise (typically). If the father is able to earn a living, he should be expected/required to help provide support for the child.

Special cases will require special responses, but for what I think are the 'typical' or 'traditional' cases, I think the above is a reasonable measure.

I know what you're saying but consider:

- The woman has just as much chance to abstain and avoid pregnancy, why is it different for the man?

- After the fact the woman is able to choose abortion, or adoption and can get out of the pregnancy, however the male cannot. Why is it the woman gets a second chance but the male does not?

Bare in mind, true feminists fight for equality. Is that not what we are all arguing for? A woman should not be greater than a man nor a man greater than a woman in the eyes of the law.

[Confused]

- The woman has just as much chance to abstain and avoid pregnancy, why is it different for the man?

It isn't.

- After the fact the woman is able to choose abortion, or adoption and can get out of the pregnancy, however the male cannot. Why is it the woman gets a second chance but the male does not?

That is simply human anatomy. Women can't be blamed for that. Perhaps God should have reversed His curses.

Bare in mind, true feminists fight for equality. Is that not what we are all arguing for? A woman should not be greater than a man nor a man greater than a woman in the eyes of the law.

I hate to bust the bubbles of those who are so inundated in the Feminist Movement, but equality is absurd. I am in no way saying that women should be property or should lack rights. I am, however, saying that the Feminist Movement went to far, as do most movements in the United States. In Utopia, one could try to make man equal to woman, but in reality, anatomy and physiology will always make this impossible.

I will say this, regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy, if the man wasn't prepared for a child, he shouldn't have had sex. If a woman wasn't, she shouldn't have had sex. No, a man shouldn't be able to force a procedure on a womans body, even if that procedure includes an abortion or a birth. Bottom line, rights are more favorable for a woman here. Is that fair? No. But then, few things in life truly are.

[Confused]

It was both of their mistakes but only one person has a way out.

Nah, the man simply needs to make sure it is a one night stand and not give out his real name.

[Evales]

No, a man shouldn't be able to force a procedure on a womans body, even if that procedure includes an abortion or a birth.

Let it be known to everyone I'm talking about a man paying child support. No persons rights should trump another persons. We are not talking about forced abortion.

Men and women are in no way equal anatomically. I said in the eyes of the law. Both should have this freedom of choice we are talking about should they not?

To reitterate:
Hypothetical "Women are allowed to have an abortion on choice. Counciling is offered to see if this is the right choice but in the end it is their choice"

Why then should a man be forced to pay life support? They should both have a way out.

Yes sex has consequences. For both people. Both people should have sex only if they are aware that there are consequences for both of them not just one. Both are responsible but one has a way out.

I'm sorry if I forgot to address some of the issues you bought up, feel free to point them out to me.

[Confused]

No, a man shouldn't be able to force a procedure on a womans body, even if that procedure includes an abortion or a birth.

Let it be known to everyone I'm talking about a man paying child support. No persons rights should trump another persons. We are not talking about forced abortion.

Men and women are in no way equal anatomically. I said in the eyes of the law. Both should have this freedom of choice we are talking about should they not?

To reitterate:
Hypothetical "Women are allowed to have an abortion on choice. Counciling is offered to see if this is the right choice but in the end it is their choice"

Why then should a man be forced to pay life support? They should both have a way out.

Yes sex has consequences. For both people. Both people should have sex only if they are aware that there are consequences for both of them not just one. Both are responsible but one has a way out.

I'm sorry if I forgot to address some of the issues you bought up, feel free to point them out to me.

My apologies, there are so many abortion threads right now that I am getting them confused (pun intended for humor).

I do see the inequity you present. But again, I will have to state that not all things in life are equal. To say it is not fair is perfectly appropriate. What would your choice of a solution be? Should the man be able to demand an abortion or have the woman forfeit any claim to child support?

In this debate, it is so easy to get lost in the whose rights are really being trumped on here. It isn't the unborn fetus. It isn't the mans. It isn't the womans. It is the born child who like it or not, had no choice about its appearance in the relationship between a man and a woman. The child should not be the one to pay the price of two peoples idiotic hormones. Women pay child support when they forfeit the custody of their child or when the custody is given to the father. It is in fairness to the CHILD. Not the parents.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 3 Post 25

I know what you're saying but consider:

- The woman has just as much chance to abstain and avoid pregnancy, why is it different for the man?

The woman faces real physical harm in carrying the baby, so the decision to do so should be hers alone. She also faces real physical harm in having an abortion, so again the decision should be hers.

I do respect what I think you're getting at. If this woman was honorable she would consider what the father wants, but due to the physicalness, she should have the final say.

- After the fact the woman is able to choose abortion, or adoption and can get out of the pregnancy, however the male cannot. Why is it the woman gets a second chance but the male does not?

If this woman decides to have the baby, and she is honorable, she will give the father a chance to raise the baby.
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From Page 3 Post 26

Bottom line, rights are more favorable for a woman here. Is that fair? No. But then, few things in life truly are.

I may be stuck here semantically, but I think the rights are equal. It's the woman's body, not the man's.
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From Page 3 Post 27

Nah, the man simply needs to make sure it is a one night stand and not give out his real name.

Dang, I didn't know women were on to that.
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From Page 3 Post 28

Let it be known to everyone I'm talking about a man paying child support. No persons rights should trump another persons.

I appreciate your stance, but I see it differently. As before, the woman (rightly) has the choice to give birth. The man had the choice to not have sex, he had the choice to use more effective control (I assume for the argument he used something).
The rights of the mother to control her body are more important (at least to me) than the rights of the father to not have a baby.

Why then should a man be forced to pay life support? They should both have a way out.

I want so much to agree with you, but the rights of this child to proper care and funding supercede the father's. At least in my area, the woman is able to refuse child support, even if it's enforced, she could still give the money back to the father.

Both are responsible but one has a way out.

A father's not wanting to support his child is a poor excuse of a man. If he is responsible enough to engage in sex, he should be responsible enough to pay child support. If the woman decides to abort, the man should be responsible enough to support her decision.
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From Page 3 Post 29

It is the born child who like it or not, had no choice about its appearance in the relationship between a man and a woman. The child should not be the one to pay the price of two peoples idiotic hormones. Women pay child support when they forfeit the custody of their child or when the custody is given to the father. It is in fairness to the CHILD. Not the parents.

I'm gonna tell everyone I wrote that.