The Knowledge of Good and Evil

[William]

A recent thread which claimed that good and evil were just opinions got me to thinking about the Garden of Eden story.

In the story, the GOD appears not to want human beings to know of good and evil, and that in gaining the knowledge, the problems began for humanity.

So I was wondering what thoughts others might have on the subject of what kind of world we would live in without this knowledge, or as some argue - without this opinion - of good and evil.

[ttruscott]

So why would God create us with an addictive nature (if that is what we must call it)? It is better called "habitual nature."

GOD would never create us, His future Bride, with an evil nature or a nature that is already habituated to evil nor as enslaved to evil to use Jesus' words. Therefore it is obvious to me that our human state is not our created state which must have been ingenuously innocent with the ability to choose to be holy or enslaved by our own free will choice.

All are sinners on earth is just another way of saying only sinners are born / sown into the world as humans, Matt 13:36-39, and are NOT created here.

[Left Site]

GOD would never create us, His future Bride, with an evil nature or a nature that is already habituated to evil nor as enslaved to evil to use Jesus' words. Therefore it is obvious to me that our human state is not our created state which must have been ingenuously innocent with the ability to choose to be holy or enslaved by our own free will choice.

Having a capacity to form habits (as in what I mean by, “habitual nature�) is not evil or bad. And it is a kindness of God that he endowed man with that faculty.

You admit we have freedom of choice. Why not choose to use that capacity of being able to form habits for good?

When we dabble with bad we know we are doing so. And if we let ourselves form bad habits we did so because something about that bad initially pleased us.

If it were like this thread has made it out to be, the serpent would not have had to decorate his request that she eat of that forbidden tree before Eve was willing to do so. But that serpent did have to decorate it so as to make it seem pleasing to her.

Eve knew it was wrong. After all, her first reply to the serpent told us that. The first thing she said was, “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’� And Paul plainly tells us that though Eve let herself be deceived, Adam was not deceived. We read that at 1st Timothy 2: 14 .

All are sinners on earth is just another way of saying only sinners are born / sown into the world as humans, Matt 13:36-39, and are NOT created here.

Put the blame where the blame belongs. Adam made himself imperfect by willfully choosing to sin and thus he created the disposition which would be passed onto his offspring.

God would never do that to us. Even today we see how children suffer because of the choices their parents make. In effect our teeth were set on edge by Adam but we can draw comfort from what God told the Jews at Ezekiel 18: 1-3

1 And the word of Jehovah continued to occur to me, saying:
2 “What does it mean to YOU people that YOU are expressing this proverbial saying on the soil of Israel, saying, ‘Fathers are the ones that eat unripe grapes, but it is the teeth of the sons that get set on edge’?
3 “‘As I am alive,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘it will no more continue to be YOURS to express this proverbial saying in Israel. 4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.�

God was not telling them that what that proverbial saying was untrue. It was indeed true. But God was telling them he wasn’t going to judge them for what their father’s had done, instead for the sins they commit now that they know better.

Adam knew better when he chose to sin. That is why Paul said Adam was not deceived.

I see by your signature that you believe similar things as Harold Camping did.

[jgh7]

We might be similar to young children, maybe pre-schoolers. They have much less knowledge on good and evil.

That doesn't mean that evil doesn't exist. People just wouldn't be considering whether what they did was evil. The same goes for good.

[JP Cusick]

We might be similar to young children, maybe pre-schoolers. They have much less knowledge on good and evil.

That doesn't mean that evil doesn't exist. People just wouldn't be considering whether what they did was evil. The same goes for good.

The correct wording is important and the correct wording was = the knowledge of good and bad.

The word "bad" is not the same as "evil" and using the wrong words confuses the message.

The words "right and wrong" are completely different from the terms good and bad.

We can know right and wrong fairly easy, but the "knowledge of good and bad" is still poison today. Genesis 2:16-17

An example: To lie is wrong and to be honest is right. BUT = the poisoned knowledge of good and bad will say that sometimes it is good to lie and some times it is bad to be honest. As such the poisoned knowledge changes right and wrong into a perversion.

It is like human parents teaching their children not to have sex before marriage and not to marry until they are of a mature age, because a young child is not mature enough to do what their bodies are capable of performing. This is the same point about the "knowledge of good and bad" because humans were too immature for that knowledge and that is why it was the forbidden fruit. After the children grow up and mature then they could marry and have sex, so too when Adam and Eve had matured then they would be able to know the knowledge of good and bad.

They took the knowledge too soon, and that is what caused it to be poisoned knowledge, so it hurt them and that poisoned knowledge continued hurting humanity ever after.

The Bible tells that this knowledge was not going to be withheld from mankind, that nothing is to be withheld, see Hebrews 2:8, and it is still that way today, as we still must learn how to handle the knowledge before it stops being poison.

This same poisoned knowledge of good and bad as fruit from a tree is told in the old Hindu scriptures called the Bhagavadgita, and the cure is to do right and avoid wrong without any regard for the consequence - with no regard for our own view of good or bad.

[Rufus21]

The better way to prevent someone doing something you don't want them to do is to make sure that they have no access to that thing in the first place.

United States tort law agrees with you on that:

The attractive nuisance doctrine applies to the law of torts, in the United States. It states that a landowner may be held liable for injuries to children trespassing on the land if the injury is caused by an object on the land that is likely to attract children. The doctrine is designed to protect children who are unable to appreciate the risk posed by the object, by imposing a liability on the landowner...Posting a sign to warn children regarding the danger on the property will not work when the children harmed are too young to read or comprehend it.

[Left Site]

The better way to prevent someone doing something you don't want them to do is to make sure that they have no access to that thing in the first place.

United States tort law agrees with you on that:

The attractive nuisance doctrine applies to the law of torts, in the United States. It states that a landowner may be held liable for injuries to children trespassing on the land if the injury is caused by an object on the land that is likely to attract children. The doctrine is designed to protect children who are unable to appreciate the risk posed by the object, by imposing a liability on the landowner...Posting a sign to warn children regarding the danger on the property will not work when the children harmed are too young to read or comprehend it.

That sounds good, doesn't it.

But Adam and Eve were full grown adults both physically and mentally. Unlike a very young child, they had a full knowledge of their language and were fully capable of communicating with God and understanding what God told them.

Any adult knows that "no" means "no" and "do not touch" means "do not touch." And these were humans with no underdevelopment caused of inherited genes. Their minds and ability to reason was far greater than ours if only due to that.

The truth is that they knew full well that they were choosing to do wrong. Adam was not deceived at all. And Eve's being deceived was that she allowed herself to see the fruit as the serpent described it, as "something to be desired." Once that desire took root Eve made a conscious choice to act on that desire rather than remain obedient to God. Therefore her sin was a deliberate sin, the same as Adam's sin, just of slightly different mechanics.

[Rufus21]

The truth is that they knew full well that they were choosing to do wrong.

How could they know that when they didn't know the difference between right and wrong?

[JP Cusick]

The truth is that they knew full well that they were choosing to do wrong.

How could they know that when they didn't know the difference between right and wrong?

The poisoned knowledge was of "good and bad" and not "right from wrong".

Link = Genesis 2:16-17

There really is a BIG distinction between those.

Those terms are not synonymous.

[Rufus21]

The poisoned knowledge was of "good and bad" and not "right from wrong".

There really is a BIG distinction between those.

Those terms are not synonymous.

bad
bad/
adjective
3.
failing to conform to standards of moral virtue or acceptable conduct.
"the bad guys"
synonyms: wicked, evil, sinful, immoral, morally wrong, corrupt, base, black-hearted, reprobate, amoral; More
criminal, villainous, nefarious, iniquitous, dishonest, dishonorable, unscrupulous, unprincipled;
informalcrooked, dirty;
dateddastardly
"the bad guys"
antonyms: virtuous


good
ɡo�od/
adjective
adjective: good; comparative adjective: better; superlative adjective: best

3.
possessing or displaying moral virtue.
"I've met many good people who made me feel ashamed of my own shortcomings"
synonyms: virtuous, righteous, upright, upstanding, moral, ethical, high-minded, principled; exemplary, law-abiding, irreproachable, blameless, guiltless, unimpeachable, honorable, scrupulous, reputable, decent, respectable, noble, trustworthy;
meritorious, praiseworthy, admirable;
whiter than white, saintly, saintlike, angelic;
informalsqueaky clean
"a good person"
antonyms: wicked


And beyond that, wouldn't you consider a lying, deceitful serpent to be evil? Something which they had no knowledge of.

[ttruscott]

The truth is that they knew full well that they were choosing to do wrong. Adam was not deceived at all. And Eve's being deceived was that she allowed herself to see the fruit as the serpent described it, as "something to be desired."

No one has ever successfully explained to me how knowing the difference between good and evil is bad. In fact, such knowledge is the base of all religious maturity and perfection:
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

1 Kings 3:9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. and

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

All denunciations of Eve surround her wanting to be like God, yet WE ARE TO BECOME LIKE JESUS and emulate the Christ to fulfill HIS plan for us as I John 1, Colossians 3:8-17, and 1 Peter 1:15-16, "But as he which hath called you is holy so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, 'be ye holy; for I am holy'." suggests.

IF she thought the snake was her friend and mentor, her spiritual blindness made her unable to (always, properly) distinguish between good and evil preachers and because she greatly desired to become like the ELOHIM, the same as every believer who would like to get into Paradise, commendable and quite normal, she would follow his advice.

Her sin was in seeking to obtain this worthy goal of becoming like her GOD through the “faithful" act (believing God's promise of election and His description of their lives as eternal) that the serpent suggested to her of disregarding HIS warnings of death to show her faith in HIS promises. She obviously believed that he was trying to help her achieve this goal, but alas, to her shame, he had another goal in mind and was lying to her. Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly attributable to her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact that she listened to him as if he were her friend and pastor, rather than looking on him as one of her worst enemies.

Since GOD created no one spiritually blind, she must have become a sinner and blinded by sin by her free will before entering the body made from Adam's rib. Their nakedness did not change, only their awareness that it was sinful, that they were sinful, changed.