The Ten Commandments

[OnceConvinced]

Have you ever looked at the ten commandments and wonder what the hell was God thinking? Why did he put these ten things above all else? I can understand most of them, but certainly not all.

Just take a look at them:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: (for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;)
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates
5. Honour thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The first three commandments are all about God and if they are that important to him then it shows us what an insecure and jealous God he is (Note that jealousy is a sin). That’s 30% of the commandments! Is God’s ego that delicate that he had to include 3 commandments such as this? Then you have laws like “thou shalt not covet” which seems to be small fry in the sin department next to many other things. “Thou shalt not commit adultery” also seems to be a small fish in a big pond when things like rape and paedophilia seem to be given a very low priority.

So what about some of the other important stuff? Where are all the other commandments that would seem to be so incredibly important? Where is…?

Thou shalt not take another human being as a slave (You’d think God would take a harder line on this issue)

Thou shalt not rape (Sexual crimes seem to be unimportant as far as God’s concerned when it comes to the 10 commandments - apart from adultry. In fact the bible says God expects rape victims to marry their abusers)

Thou shalt not take drugs (or something like that. After all, God knows what will happen in the future and must have surely known it would become a major problem further down the line. He is either short sighted or has no knowledge of what will happen in the future.)

I am aware there are a lot of issues dealt with in other parts of the Torah relating to immoralities, however the 10 Commandments seem to stand out as God’s main issues and that is what I am trying to focus on here.

So my questions:
What commandments that haven't been included do you think should have been included and why?
Should any have been omitted? Why?
Should any have been reworded or elaborated more on?.

[I AM ALL I AM]

... and I know my way around Jewish teaching better than you ever will. ...

G'day Cnorman18.

This is a pretty bold statement.

Do you:

1. Have any proof to the veracity of this statement ???

2. Claim to know the future and what a given person will or won't know ???

Or is this part of a superiority complex that creeps out when you are questioned about the Judaic cult that you promote ???

It's a matter of experience and understanding, and a number of years of Jewish learning verses understanding how certain groups make invalid claims about Judaism. It's not a 'superiority' complex at all, but an evaluation based on the evidence.

G'day Goat.

It's a guess at best. The point of declaring "ever will" denotes an apparent foreknowledge of future events and what a specific person will or will not do in between now and that event.

The use of "better than" in conjunction with "ever will" is an attempt to make himself superior for all time.

Unless Cnorman18 knows what RND will be doing in the future, whether studying Judaic texts or otherwise, then it is a statement based upon Cnorman18's own thoughts that he will always be "better than" RND "ever will". Obviously this would equate with Cnorman18 believing that he is superior to RND, whether that be now or in the prophesied future that Cnorman18 has declared with his statement that I quoted.

[RND]

Yes, the Jews view the Torah and the Tanakah as a 'living document' that has to be adapted for our times. That is just realism. Christianity does the same thing, many just deny they are doing that.

Don't get me started on Christianity! They are just as far away, if not even farther than "Jews," in regards to the Hebraic roots of the Bible.

Fortunately,the Jews don't have to worry about meeting your expectations for what you believe they should believe

I have -zero- expectations as to what a "Jew" should or should not know. But I will say this. Most modern day Jews it seems know just as little about the Torah as Christians do.

They just so happen to know their own scripture, and in depth, not out of context quotes too.

You mean as evidenced by the fallacy already expressed to me in the scant few post I've made here?

I've been told that "gentiles" weren't required to observe "religious law" (whatever that is) and yet the Torah is clear that stranger were to keep the sabbath and were encouraged to sacrifice the passover and become native sons and yet even a cursory glance at the Torah paints a completely different picture.

[Goat]

Yes, the Jews view the Torah and the Tanakah as a 'living document' that has to be adapted for our times. That is just realism. Christianity does the same thing, many just deny they are doing that.

Don't get me started on Christianity! They are just as far away, if not even farther than "Jews," in regards to the Hebraic roots of the Bible.

Fortunately,the Jews don't have to worry about meeting your expectations for what you believe they should believe

I have -zero- expectations as to what a "Jew" should or should not know. But I will say this. Most modern day Jews it seems know just as little about the Torah as Christians do.

They just so happen to know their own scripture, and in depth, not out of context quotes too.

You mean as evidenced by the fallacy already expressed to me in the scant few post I've made here?

I've been told that "gentiles" weren't required to observe "religious law" (whatever that is) and yet the Torah is clear that stranger were to keep the sabbath and were encouraged to sacrifice the passover and become native sons and yet even a cursory glance at the Torah paints a completely different picture.

And you think your religion is any better? Are you using translations, or are you reading the torah in the Hebrew, and understand the history and context in which it was written?

[RND]

And you think your religion is any better?

C'mon brother did you read what I wrote?

Don't get me started on Christianity! They are just as far away, if not even farther than "Jews," in regards to the Hebraic roots of the Bible.

"....They are just as far away, if not even farther than "Jews"...."

This apparently is a discussion where you assume to know what other people are thinking, yet miss what they actually say.

Are you using translations,

Of course, aren't they all? I mean seriously, what you are saying here is that it can't possibly be genuine unless I'm reading the actual scroll that Rav Moshe wrote! Oy vey!

or are you reading the torah in the Hebrew, and understand the history and context in which it was written?

Brother "goat" you assume too much. [/quote]

[RND]

G'day Goat.

It's a guess at best. The point of declaring "ever will" denotes an apparent foreknowledge of future events and what a specific person will or will not do in between now and that event.

The use of "better than" in conjunction with "ever will" is an attempt to make himself superior for all time.

Unless Cnorman18 knows what RND will be doing in the future, whether studying Judaic texts or otherwise, then it is a statement based upon Cnorman18's own thoughts that he will always be "better than" RND "ever will". Obviously this would equate with Cnorman18 believing that he is superior to RND, whether that be now or in the prophesied future that Cnorman18 has declared with his statement that I quoted.

Nice thoughts. Thanks.

[cnorman18]

... and I know my way around Jewish teaching better than you ever will. ...

G'day Cnorman18.

This is a pretty bold statement.

Do you:

1. Have any proof to the veracity of this statement ???

Sure. RND has made it very clear that he has no interest whatever in learning what Jewish teachings actually are, and considers the Bible - or more properly, his idiosyncratic and frankly ignorant interpretation of the Bible - to be all the information he needs to make pronouncements about the True Religion and the will of God. Therefore, the statement that I know more about Jewish teachings than he ever will seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

I freely admit that I might be wrong, but since that was intended to be more of a rhetorical flourish than a statement of absolute fact, and I think rather clearly so, that doesn't trouble me much.

2. Claim to know the future and what a given person will or won't know ???

See above. And lighten up. I'm talking to (on the subject of Judaic knowledge) an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus, not a serious student of the Jewish religion.

Or is this part of a superiority complex that creeps out when you are questioned about the Judaic cult that you promote ???

Do you have any evidence that I have ever claimed to be "superior" to anyone? I am talking about knowledge, not character, intelligence, morality, or anything else.

Do you have any evidence that I am 'promoting" anything? I have gone on the record many, many times that I am here to inform only, not to proselytize.

Do you care to examine the connotations of the word cult, and present any evidence you have that proves that Judaism is a cult as opposed to a religion, a culture, a community, or any of the other things it is commonly said to be?

If you are going to carefully parse the statements of others, prepare to have the same treatment applied to your own.

[RND]

It appears when a bear is cornered and the light of truth is shed in that corner then all the vileness that can be mustered by the prince of darkness is shot forth in a stream of incoherent rants and uncalled for name calling.

Hey, nice religion that "Rabbinical Tulmudism" happens to be.

"...Respectful Religious Debates..."

[RND]

Sure. RND has made it very clear that he has no interest whatever in learning what Jewish teachings actually are, and considers the Bible - or more properly, his idiosyncratic and frankly ignorant interpretation of the Bible - to be all the information he needs to make pronouncements about the True Religion and the will of God.

I'd love to see anywhere where "Judiaism" AKA "Rabbinic Talmudism" is considered the "Religion of God."

Therefore, the statement that I know more about Jewish teachings than he ever will seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

Humorous!

I freely admit that I might be wrong, but since that was intended to be more of a rhetorical flourish than a statement of absolute fact, and I think rather clearly so, that doesn't trouble me much.

Admitting the obvious?

See above. And lighten up. I'm talking to (on the subject of Judaic knowledge) an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus, not a serious student of the Jewish religion.

No, you are talking to "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus" you are talking AT a "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus."

You're two for two here....

I am a serious student of the "Hebraic Religion." Never been much into "wife's tale and superstitions."

Do you have any evidence that I have ever claimed to be "superior" to anyone? I am talking about knowledge, not character, intelligence, morality, or anything else.

Yes. And what do you call saying "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus" if you aren't talking about "character, intelligence, morality, or anything else."

Do you have any evidence that I am 'promoting" anything? I have gone on the record many, many times that I am here to inform only, not to proselytize.

Yes! When you say this like: "RND has made it very clear that he has no interest whatever in learning what Jewish teachings actually are, and considers the Bible - or more properly, his idiosyncratic and frankly ignorant interpretation of the Bible - to be all the information he needs to make pronouncements about the True Religion and the will of God" then you are indeed showing your hand.

Do you care to examine the connotations of the word cult, and present any evidence you have that proves that Judaism is a cult as opposed to a religion, a culture, a community, or any of the other things it is commonly said to be?

cult
   /kʌlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhlt] Show IPA
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

If you are going to carefully parse the statements of others, prepare to have the same treatment applied to your own.

Likewise.

[McCulloch]

Gentle Moderator Reminder

Let's all remember to debate the issues not the debaters.

[cnorman18]

Sure. RND has made it very clear that he has no interest whatever in learning what Jewish teachings actually are, and considers the Bible - or more properly, his idiosyncratic and frankly ignorant interpretation of the Bible - to be all the information he needs to make pronouncements about the True Religion and the will of God.

I'd love to see anywhere where "Judiaism" AKA "Rabbinic Talmudism" is considered the "Religion of God."

I was referring to your own apparent claim that your own beliefs are the True Religion. Judaism makes no such claim.

Therefore, the statement that I know more about Jewish teachings than he ever will seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

Humorous!

Accurate.

You have dismissed Jewish teaching, while clearly knowing virtually nothing of it, as irrelevant nonsense. Therefore you have no intention of learning anything about that which you dismiss.

I freely admit that I might be wrong, but since that was intended to be more of a rhetorical flourish than a statement of absolute fact, and I think rather clearly so, that doesn't trouble me much.

Admitting the obvious?

No. Pointing it out.

See above. And lighten up. I'm talking to (on the subject of Judaic knowledge) an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus, not a serious student of the Jewish religion.

No, you are talking to "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus" you are talking AT a "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus."

At least we agree on your attitude and the extent of your knowledge about Judaism.

I am a serious student of the "Hebraic Religion." Never been much into "wife's tale and superstitions."

That is impossible.

If you dismiss Judaism as "wife's tale [sic] and superstitions," you can hardly be a serious student of it.

If you are proposing something other than Judaism as the "Hebraic Religion," you are making up a religion that does not otherwise exist.

In either case, I see no particular reason to debate you. You may believe what you want, and you have no authority or warrant whatever to pass judgment on that about which you know nothing; therefore I shall feel free to ignore whatever you have to say, but still to take exception when you post falsehoods about the teachings of the Jewish faitn.

Do you have any evidence that I have ever claimed to be "superior" to anyone? I am talking about knowledge, not character, intelligence, morality, or anything else.

Yes.

What is it? Please post your evidence.

And what do you call saying "an arrogant, sectarian ignoramus" if you aren't talking about "character, intelligence, morality, or anything else."

I'm talking about your arrogantly presuming to pass judgment on teachings with which you are not familiar, dismissing beliefs which do not match your own in a sectarian manner, and claiming knowledge which you do not possess and of which you are therefore ignorant. Nothing more.

You can be of sterling character, very intelligent, and moral to the core, and still do all those things. That phrase was not an insult, but an objective and accurate description of your attitude and level of knowledge about Judaism.

Do you have any evidence that I am 'promoting" anything? I have gone on the record many, many times that I am here to inform only, not to proselytize.

Yes! When you say this like: "RND has made it very clear that he has no interest whatever in learning what Jewish teachings actually are, and considers the Bible - or more properly, his idiosyncratic and frankly ignorant interpretation of the Bible - to be all the information he needs to make pronouncements about the True Religion and the will of God" then you are indeed showing your hand.

I was talking about your claims. Not mine.

You do claim that your understanding of the Bible is the only proper and correct one, the True Religion, and that other beliefs - and Judaism in particular - are "wife's tale [sic] and superstitions," do you not?

Do you care to examine the connotations of the word cult, and present any evidence you have that proves that Judaism is a cult as opposed to a religion, a culture, a community, or any of the other things it is commonly said to be?

cult
   /kʌlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhlt] Show IPA
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

I said connotations.

Let's look a little farther down on the same page, here, where you found that definition:

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

In context, this is rather obviously closer to I AM's intended meaning than the definition you cited. The connotations of the world "cult' inarguably include #6 as well as #1, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. You don't get to imply that a belief is baloney and then back away and claim that you merely meant that it's a religion.

If you are going to carefully parse the statements of others, prepare to have the same treatment applied to your own.

Likewise.

No problem.

A few questions, just for clarity:

(1) Do you not claim to know and understand the teachings of rabbinic Judaism, at least to the extent necessary to declare them largely false?

(2) Do you not claim that your understanding and application of the Bible are truer and more accurate than the teachings of rabbinic Judaism?

(3) Do you not contend that rabbinic Judaism consists of the false and impious teachings of men and is therefore a false religion?

(4) Do you not claim that your understanding of the Bible and the will of God is the one, true, and proper understanding of same and incumbent upon all humans to believe and follow?

If I am wrong about any of these, I humbly apologize.

If not, I stand by everything I have said and have nothing more to add.