Masturbation while thinking about God.

[methylatedghosts]

This came up in a discussion I had today. The question was:

If you are thinking about God while masturbating, is it ok?

This hasn't really been thought out very well, but it'll get the ball rolling

God = Love
According to Christian thought, one is supposed to only have sex with one you love, and loves you (or around about that).
Now, because God = Love, he can only love you.
Christianity tell us to strive for a special relationship with God.
Marriage is a special relationship with another human being in which you can have a sex.


So, God = love, therefore God can't do anything but love you.
If you love God, and have a special relationship with him - as christianity is so eager for us to do, you are therefore, able to have sex with God, if you so wished. Because that is not physically possible (human being physical, God being non-physical), masturbation with God on your mind is as close as you can get. So, I conclude, that masturbation while thinking about God is A-OK.

Go on, pick some holes if you like - I know I haven't done well. I want to generate a few responses.

[Ilya]

I would say that masturbation has nothing to do with religion at all, but some say that during an orgasm men (and I would assume also females) get closer to God.

[Openmind]

Don't think about God - that's sinful!

Think about a hot chick whacking you off, girls are more sexy than a non-corporeal God.

And I HATE it when christians tell people wanking is a sin, and that it is bad. We've been doing it for ever, and we always will. It's not hurting anyone. It feels good. Prevents prostrate cancer. Far out, even chimps whack off. Good on them, they don't have any stupid reasons to feel guilty.

I know boys who have been put into very vicious cycles due to this crap. Feel goddam awful and guilty when they wank. But it happens, it's human nature. About 99% of guys do it in the 13 - 18 age group. Which corresponds to - guess what! Puberty! The growing interest in sex age etc.

I'm sure Jesus would have whacked off as a kid - he was human after all.

[stinkylettuce]

While it might be extremely difficult, in good conscience, to masturbate to Yahweh, Allah, or another "most sex is bad" deity I would not be shocked to find those who venerated Aphrodite, or other sex/fertility god masturbate as a form of worship.

What if your god is one of unearthly beauty and likes sex?

[sledheavy]

While it might be extremely difficult, in good conscience, to masturbate to Yahweh, Allah, or another "most sex is bad" deity I would not be shocked to find those who venerated Aphrodite, or other sex/fertility god masturbate as a form of worship.

What if your god is one of unearthly beauty and likes sex?

Yeah I suppose. There'd still be an overall disagreement on the general terms of morality when it came to this wouldn't there?

I was told in bible class my junior year that there were trees with markings of perverse symbols and well,....archaic porn, lol one might find roaming from city to city. I think a sex god gets lumped into that cliche pegan stereotype, but anyone might say that, turn around, and be watching porn then next minute. I suppose we really can't say, but I give credit to those who actually admit it rather than the shameless doubters.

[spiritletter]

For starters, I do not believe that masturbation is a sin. I do not read the Bible literally, so what vague references to masturbation there are do not strike me as central.

I'm not at all sure that the person who claims to think about God when masturbating is being sincere: perhaps they're just trying to provoke; or, perhaps, the person is more afraid that God is watching in order to catch him/her masturbating.

I do not believe that God is much bothered by people masturbating. Can you imagine? God flying into a snit because people masturbate? God peeking through keyholes? Somehow I don't think he's that easily rattled.

What interests me in this topic is that there is a long relationship between sex and religion. Some religions, e.g.; Tantric Buddhism, consciously use the energy of reversed orgasm to facilitate spiritual experience.

Western religions, and even some eastern, are still not comfortable with the animal within the human. I'm sure that human sexuality is still vastly misunderstood. It has certainly created a share of the world's violence (stoning of women, clitorectomies, etc.). And much of the world's comedy results from sexual hypocrisy.

I prefer the line from a Milosz poem which speaks of compassion "for those entangled in the flesh."

When people are hysterical about masturbation (or any other aspect of sexuality) I sense that they have something to hide.

Remember, God loves you in your imperfection, if, in fact, being sexual is part of being imperfect. I think not.

[sledheavy]

For starters, I do not believe that masturbation is a sin. I do not read the Bible literally, so what vague references to masturbation there are do not strike me as central.

I'm not at all sure that the person who claims to think about God when masturbating is being sincere: perhaps they're just trying to provoke; or, perhaps, the person is more afraid that God is watching in order to catch him/her masturbating.

I do not believe that God is much bothered by people masturbating. Can you imagine? God flying into a snit because people masturbate? God peeking through keyholes? Somehow I don't think he's that easily rattled.

What interests me in this topic is that there is a long relationship between sex and religion. Some religions, e.g.; Tantric Buddhism, consciously use the energy of reversed orgasm to facilitate spiritual experience.

Western religions, and even some eastern, are still not comfortable with the animal within the human. I'm sure that human sexuality is still vastly misunderstood. It has certainly created a share of the world's violence (stoning of women, clitorectomies, etc.). And much of the world's comedy results from sexual hypocrisy.

I prefer the line from a Milosz poem which speaks of compassion "for those entangled in the flesh."

When people are hysterical about masturbation (or any other aspect of sexuality) I sense that they have something to hide.

Remember, God loves you in your imperfection, if, in fact, being sexual is part of being imperfect. I think not.

I suppose it's the idea of 'god always watching' that makes people feel the most guilty. Lol, as in freestyling while someone else is in the room uncomfortably.

[skyscraper]

From my understanding of argument against masturbation, I would say that God would probably not approve. The point of ejaculation is to create an opportunity to father a child. The point of female arousal is to facilitate this process. As such, masturbation does not accomplish its natural aim, i.e. impregnation and eventual childbirth. Also, as you said, sex is meant to be an act of love and interpersonal communion, so sharing it with yourself is not very generous of you. The idea that you're sharing it with God, whom you love, is certainly beautiful in sentiment. However, what you are saying is that your relationship with God is consensual... Presumably, God doesn't experience lust or even physical attraction to human beings; he has no need to father children in the traditional way, so divine arousal would be rather purposeless.

It's also safe to say that God, if he's a regular viewer, has seen better than you or I. Our masturbation may have lost its appeal by now. Then again, I have no idea what you look like-- you might keep him interested.

[sledheavy]

From my understanding of argument against masturbation, I would say that God would probably not approve. The point of ejaculation is to create an opportunity to father a child. The point of female arousal is to facilitate this process. As such, masturbation does not accomplish its natural aim, i.e. impregnation and eventual childbirth. Also, as you said, sex is meant to be an act of love and interpersonal communion, so sharing it with yourself is not very generous of you. The idea that you're sharing it with God, whom you love, is certainly beautiful in sentiment. However, what you are saying is that your relationship with God is consensual... Presumably, God doesn't experience lust or even physical attraction to human beings; he has no need to father children in the traditional way, so divine arousal would be rather purposeless.

It's also safe to say that God, if he's a regular viewer, has seen better than you or I. Our masturbation may have lost its appeal by now. Then again, I have no idea what you look like-- you might keep him interested.

Still doesn't answer the 'natural' occurence of the wet dream. If there's no one around to procreate the body still naturally finds it's way of expelling it's 'sin'. So to call it unnatural or sinful would seem a statement against human nature, and quite possibly the nature this god had intended.

I've really yet to hear an argument that actually appeals to me on this one. Spiritletters post had to be the most fulfilling I think thus far, but this trend appears to be that christians are chiming in and basing their point of views on the same opinionated conclusions as ironically as stated before and around and back around again.

insert lemming award.

Details would be a nice refresher for this topic.

[The Project Hate]

Is God seksy and female ? Then, ok.

[skyscraper]

Still doesn't answer the 'natural' occurence of the wet dream. If there's no one around to procreate the body still naturally finds it's way of expelling it's 'sin'. So to call it unnatural or sinful would seem a statement against human nature, and quite possibly the nature this god had intended.

I've really yet to hear an argument that actually appeals to me on this one. Spiritletters post had to be the most fulfilling I think thus far, but this trend appears to be that christians are chiming in and basing their point of views on the same opinionated conclusions as ironically as stated before and around and back around again.

insert lemming award.

Details would be a nice refresher for this topic.

Woah. First of all, I never claimed to be a Christian. I was simply presenting my understanding of the argument with some degree of levity. Now, the question you ask when you attempt to connect wet dreams to masturbation is somewhat different than what was originally asked and necessitates a different approach to the same final conclusion.

To begin with, your fundamental assertion-- if God created our sexual desires, he cannot hate them-- is correct. According to Christianity, we are created in God's image and he has instructed us to "be fruitful and multiply." (Genesis 1:28) Our sexuality is one of God's blessings, and certainly a great part of a loving relationship and fulfillment here on Earth. If it were simply a question of whether or not we should feel sexual stimulation and pleasure, the answer is very straightforwardly yes, we should.

Where masturbation deviates from this ideal is that it is ultimately a selfish act. When you masturbate and you are alone, you are not sharing your sexuality or allowing it to blossom. You are satisfying your own desires, and imagining that you can fulfill your need for a partner by yourself. What are your selfless goals as you masturbate? Do you feel that it is something that pleases and uplifts the people around you? Masturbation is self-indulgence. There's nothing loftier or more meaningful to it than that, and according to Christianity, "If we wish, we can keep our body and spirit chaste. The Master, who speaks with great severity in this matter, does not propose an impossible thing." The guidance of the Holy Spirit will lead a faithful Christian away from self-indulgence and instead present a path of self-respect and willingness to share the gift of our sexuality in a healthy and productive manner. The Bible so frequently refers to sexual self-indulgence as sinful because it's a cornerstone of hedonism. Just as when you become angry your morality does not permit you to physically assault another, your state of heightened sexuality is not an excuse for masturbation. You cannot imagine the former is justifiable in the eyes of God, so you should not imagine the latter would be either.

It is true that humans are subject to concupiscence, and "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." (Matthew 26:41) Humans are inevitably going to fail in their attempts to live chastely, no matter how good their intentions. That is what reconciliation is for, and the Christian God is more than willing to accept your sincere apologies and wishes to live the beautiful life he intends for you. He will forgive you if you have that sincerity, and do not look on masturbation fatalistically as something you cannot avoid, but rather something you can surmount in order to enrich your sexual experiences with your eventual partner and restore the full value of chastity to your sexual release.

Thus wet dreams are not the same as masturbation because they are not the result of a conscious choice to satisfy one's own sexual desires. Calling a wet dream a sin is almost as inane as terming blinking or breathing sinful. I hope that this is helpful and not as amenable to conformity with the belief that Christians are mindless automatons without philosophical foundation for their moral statutes.