Light, stars, and creationism

[otseng]

If the stars were created on the fourth day, where did the light on the first day come from?

How can we see stars that are billions of light years away if creationism says the earth is less than 20,000 years old?

[ENIGMA]

I am new here, and perhaps I misunderstand the premise. I thought we were having a debate. Although a specific topic is necessary, there is often a need to incorporate additional ideas and concepts to get the message across. If I am out of line, I will try to be more specific. However, I have not added any posting in my e-mails. I think you are confusing the dialogue here.

I was generally referring to BoatRocker, many of the topics that you were dealing with were simply a response to the wide array started by her. Sorry for the confusion.

I am quite curious why the mods only decided to kill a closely related topic (i.e. the flood) while perpetually allowing a less-closely related topic (sin, freewill) to continue indefinately..

[BoatRocker]

I was generally referring to BoatRocker, many of the topics that you were dealing with were simply a response to the wide array started by her.

Started by me? I didn't start any new topics, I addressed the issues you brought up. Apparently you don't want to talk about them, which is fine with me. Just don't try accusing me of changing the subject.

[otseng]

I am quite curious why the mods only decided to kill a closely related topic (i.e. the flood) while perpetually allowing a less-closely related topic (sin, freewill) to continue indefinately..

There is no topic specifically on the flood (as of yet). Or are you referring to the Creationism vs Evolutionism thread? That thread was closed because it reached 10 pages and also this entire subforum was created to discuss C vs E after the thread was created.

And to be clear about this topic, it is Light, stars, and creationism. And the questions for debate are:

If the stars were created on the fourth day, where did the light on the first day come from?

How can we see stars that are billions of light years away if creationism says the earth is less than 20,000 years old?

Let's all try to stay within these questions in this thread. Feel free to start up new threads on a different subject matter. Thanks.

[ENIGMA]

And to be clear about this topic, it is Light, stars, and creationism. And the questions for debate are:

If the stars were created on the fourth day, where did the light on the first day come from?

How can we see stars that are billions of light years away if creationism says the earth is less than 20,000 years old?

Let's all try to stay within these questions in this thread. Feel free to start up new threads on a different subject matter. Thanks.

All of my inquiries thus far have been making reference to this thread, considering that there has been a mod warning against discussing the flood in this thread (which from my POV is a similar topic), I was wondering why there were no similar warnings when BoatRocker made the following post:

Who cares what I would do? It isn't about me, because what I would or would not do is completely irrelevant to what God has done. I cannot create God in my image, expecting him to act as I specify, demanding an explanation when he doesn't perfom to my specifications. In that case I would be pretending to be God, and treating God like a slave!

Many people wish God had created robots instead of people, forcing us to be good and kind. They value comfort over character, control over choice, fate over faith. But God isn't like that.

He gave us a free will. What's the point of that if we had no choice to make? That we have, as a race, chosen to defy God and live in sin is not his fault. So if you want to blame someone for all the evil in the world, blame man.

Which brings up topics of free will and sin which are quite well outside the boundaries proscribed above, much moreso than the flood at any rate. Now my main question is why the boundaries happened to be brought up on the flood discussion and not the one above?

[ENIGMA]

I was generally referring to BoatRocker, many of the topics that you were dealing with were simply a response to the wide array started by her.

Started by me? I didn't start any new topics, I addressed the issues you brought up. Apparently you don't want to talk about them, which is fine with me. Just don't try accusing me of changing the subject.

I have brought up no such issues, and would be more than happy to discuss the points you have made, however I would rather not do so if I am bound by topic limitations to be unable to respond.

[BoatRocker]

Let me ask you this, boatrocker:

Would you want to give birth to a child with less intelligence, less strength and live fewer years than you?

Would you as a mother condemn your child to death - and his children's children - all because he disobeyed you?

Would you as a mother blame your child for becoming contaminated when you created him corruptible, even though you are incorruptible?

Is giving your child corruptibility considered a loving thing to do - or is giving your child the incorruptibility you have loving?

Would you decide that the best solution to the problem you created (but blame others) is to destroy your beloved children in the flood?

And when this failed, choose to crucify another child - as a demonstration of your love?

And when this failed, decide the best solution is to annihilate all mankind except 144,00 virgin men undefiled by women?

Doesn't it seem strange to you that God's solutions doen't seem to work out too well? How is that?

A god of love does not destroy - just as a mother does not destroy, no matter what their children have done.

I know only a God of love and forgiveness.

Matt 5:38-39 “Ye have heard it said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth; but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil; but whosoever smiteth thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Does God do this? Apparently not, yet asks us to do what He cannot do?

Do you believe God can go against His own commandment "Thou shalt not kill?"

In my book, Love only gives all, never withholds.

What is that "truth" that sets us free?

Guy

Matt 24:40 “I tell you the Truth. Whatever you do to the least of your brothers, you do to me.”

This is the post I was responding to. I was asked directly, by name, specific questions, questions which a certain someone did NOT complain about as being off-topic.

[otseng]

Alright, enough. My warning was not against any specific person, but if this continues, I will have to give specific warnings. I'm also considering deleting several posts here in this thread since they are unrelated to this thread.

Please only discuss the questions first posed in this thread. All other debates please start another thread.

I was wondering why there were no similar warnings when BoatRocker made the following post:

Apparently it slipped by all the moderators, including me.

[anchorman]

It is interesting that the writer of Genesis separated light from the stars or more specifically from the sun. At the time when Genesis was written, if I were writing a book trying to explain the order of creation I would surely have linked light to the sun. anyone at that time surely could have seen that light was brought on by the sun during the day. As a Christian my belief is that scripture was written by man, inspired by God. A man would have linked light with the sun. But as you can see by reading Genesis, God did not...Why?

I think that the strongest evidence that science has for an "old earth" is that we can see stars that are millions of light years away. And the most interesting part of Genesis that may explain why we can see this starlight may be because God created light before the stars.

I personally believe in the Genesis account of creation and also believe your first question may answer your second. If God created the light from the stars before he created the stars that may explain how we can see stars billions of light years away from a planet that is only 10,000 years old. I understand that scientifically this explanation is empty. But Im not a scientist. However, If you believe in a creator I am not going to put boundaries on how the creator creates.

[Lotan]

I believe this problem can be solved quite easily.

We read in Gen.1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the water from the waters.

Then later in Gen.1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs....

Now the interesting thing about this word firmament is that the original Hebrew word translates as 'vault' or 'arch' and it was considered to be solid. We can know this for sure because it had nice doors and windows for the angels to dump rain and snow through (Gen.7:11, Isa.24:18, Mal.3:10).

So, back in Gen.1:3 when God says Let there be light although we'll probably never know who He was talking to, at least we know why. He needed to see what He was doing when He built the firmament!

[hiramabbi2]

And to be clear about this topic, it is Light, stars, and creationism. And the questions for debate are:

If the stars were created on the fourth day, where did the light on the first day come from?

How can we see stars that are billions of light years away if creationism says the earth is less than 20,000 years old?

is Let's all try to stay within these questions in this thread. Feel free to start up new threads on a different subject matter. Thanks.

From my peculiar point of view as a Christian, here’s my take regarding the topic:

The Light that was brought forth in the Beginning, before the formation of the 1st. heaven (2nd. Day) and the earth (3rd. Day) is YHWH himself, the Son of the INVISIBLE God, known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

He came forth from the bosom of Invisible Spirit of God, into the Physical World, when God said, Let there be Light. YHWH/Jesus, the Son, is the ONLY God anyone will ever see in this world. He is the image of the Invisible God, who is a Spirit.

BIBLICAL SUPPORT:

Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts.

"In the beginning was the Word (LIGHT), and the Word was with God (Father) and the Word was God (Son)." John 1:1

The WORD (Jesus) was spoken in the beginning of Genesis "LET THERE BE LIGHT" Gen. 1:3

All things were made through/by him and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

"Jesus WAS THE TRUE LIGHT, which lighteth EVERY man that cometh into the world." ref. John 1:9

Revelation 21:23 also document us that Jesus would be THE LIGHT (literally) that would shine in the New Jerusalem to come. Read…..

REVELATION 21
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the LAMB IS THE LIGHT THEREOF.

Note: I believe our own universe is billions years of age.



God Bless