Without Evolution or Intelligent Design

[Purple Knight]

Question for debate: If we eliminate both evolution and intelligent design as explanations for how life came to be, and came to be in its current forms, what other explanations present themselves?

The sky's the limit on crazy here, so if anything occurs, present it. It's a given that anything presented will seem crazy to all parties since we're so entrenched in one or the other of these two mainstream explanations.

[Difflugia]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

The best I can do is evolution, but with an alternate mechanism. The pattern we see is descent with modification, so even if mutation and natural selection aren't what's responsible, something created a pattern of descent that is detectable within individual genes. If we exclude an intelligent designer that for whatever reason decided to mimic that pattern exactly, I can't think of anything other than descent with modification that would create that pattern.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Question for debate: If we eliminate both evolution and intelligent design as explanations for how life came to be, and came to be in its current forms, what other explanations present themselves?

The sky's the limit on crazy here, so if anything occurs, present it. It's a given that anything presented will seem crazy to all parties since we're so entrenched in one or the other of these two mainstream explanations.

Well it is interesting to ponder on what the nature of such an alternative might be, it also goes to heart of what exactly constitutes an explanation.

Explanations traditionally in the sciences, are structured on the basis of cause and effect and reductionism, unless each of these is present in some way then we do not have a scientific explanation.

In the case of evolution the causal element is embodied in the laws of physics and chemistry in the case of ID the cause is something akin to our own innate "self" a non-deterministic agency able to create information.

What could be the causal element in it was neither of these?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

I question the premise of neither the ID nor the evolution. Suddenly, when ID is winning, then you dismiss it? No, no, no, no easy way out of here, pal.

I believe in a stronger, more corroborated Intelligent Design (ID) in the future. God has been proven by radio-astronomy and more and description of Fantastic Phenomena is in concert with ID, also being investigated more.

So, my question to you is rather this: Atheism is out? And Darwin's Theory of Evolution with it? See? Now we're getting somewhere.

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

The best I can do is evolution, but with an alternate mechanism. The pattern we see is descent with modification, so even if mutation and natural selection aren't what's responsible, something created a pattern of descent that is detectable within individual genes. If we exclude an intelligent designer that for whatever reason decided to mimic that pattern exactly, I can't think of anything other than descent with modification that would create that pattern.

How about: The universe abhors order and wishes for entropy, so we, as organised lifeforms, are order-vacuums?

We absorb highly-organised resources and break them down for our benefit, causing more disorder, more quickly, than allowing these things to break down on their own.

We're simply drawn toward that paths that eliminate order and produce disorder. We're agents of primal chaos, basically. Man may have only been invented because earth needed someone to burn off all its coal or break down heavy elements through fission.

Now I admit, the idea that entropy is the force driving the extremely specialised, fine-tuned adaptations we see today... is more than a little bit crazy. But since entropy is served by this specialisation and fine-tuning, since each organism pays for all its lovely bells and whistles in the form of higher energy needs, I don't see what's wrong with making the minor leap to the idea that entropy is somehow causing this to happen.

This doesn't explain sloths though. Sloths sort of break this hypothesis. If I'm right, they really shouldn't exist. But let's be honest - sloths shouldn't exist anyway.

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

How about some sort of interdimensional transport, where organisms arrive on earth via a type of doorway between dimensions? Or the same thing occurring between universes (in the multiverse)?