Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

[Diogenes]

In clinical practice, no clear guidelines exist to distinguish between "normal" religious beliefs and "pathological" religious delusions. Historically, psychiatrists such as Freud have suggested that all religious beliefs are delusional, while the current DSM-IV definition of delusion exempts religious doctrine from pathology altogether. ....
Religious beliefs and delusions alike can arise from neurologic lesions and anomalous experiences, suggesting that at least some religious beliefs can be pathological. Religious beliefs exist outside of the scientific domain; therefore they can be easily labeled delusional from a rational perspective.....

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990520/
The question for debate is stated in the title, Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
A subordinate question: Should we distinguish between a learned belief in supernatural phenomena and those who believe and attribute their beliefs to personal experience... and how could we tell?

[William]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #78]

What do these 'many scientists' tell us that this God they believe in, is - if not a Ghost?

Good question,

Do you have a good answer, or shall we dismiss that line of argument?

but you asked me if there was any difference between God and ghosts so I showed you one.

Remind me where this 'showing' occurred.

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #78]

What do these 'many scientists' tell us that this God they believe in, is - if not a Ghost?

Good question,

Do you have a good answer, or shall we dismiss that line of argument?

but you asked me if there was any difference between God and ghosts so I showed you one.

Remind me where this 'showing' occurred.

This is frankly ridiculous, I have no idea what other people would say if they were asked that question. If you really think I'm wrong when I say God is more believable to many scientists than ghosts are and that this is an objective indication of a real difference then fine, don't believe me.

I so long for mature, honest adult debating, yet it is always out of reach.

[JoeyKnothead]

I so long for mature, honest adult debating, yet it is always out of reach.

Maybe if your posts lived up to that standard, ya wouldn't find yourself so disappointed round these parts.

It's like complaining cause some kid used his kid words to respond, thinking he was honest as he could be, then some puffed up with undeserved self pride adult wants to insult him for doing the best he can with what he's got.

Nothing in your comment here refutes nothing, but your attempt to dismiss the arguments of others as beneath your arrogant contempt.

Yet you return to this site, and return again. You even changed your name from - don't nobody laugh - Sherlock Holmes, cause, I contend, your insulting others, mixed with your faulty thinking, had your reputation so damaged not even the likes of you could hold a candle to what is just a fictional character to begin with.


But keep it up. Tell us all how we're just us a bunch of children around here, as we stomp mudhole after mudhole in your weak, insulting 'debate'.

[Inquirer]

I so long for mature, honest adult debating, yet it is always out of reach.

Maybe if your posts lived up to that standard, ya wouldn't find yourself so disappointed round these parts.

It's like complaining cause some kid used his kid words to respond, thinking he was honest as he could be, then some puffed up with undeserved self pride adult wants to insult him for doing the best he can with what he's got.

Nothing in your comment here refutes nothing, but your attempt to dismiss the arguments of others as beneath your arrogant contempt.

Yet you return to this site, and return again. You even changed your name from - don't nobody laugh - Sherlock Holmes, cause, I contend, your insulting others, mixed with your faulty thinking, had your reputation so damaged not even the likes of you could hold a candle to what is just a fictional character to begin with.


But keep it up. Tell us all how we're just us a bunch of children around here, as we stomp mudhole after mudhole in your weak, insulting 'debate'.

Please stop, let us stop bickering, OK?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #82]

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[Clownboat]

What evidence do you have to support your contention that God and ghost mean the same thing? You said it yet cannot defend it. You have conflated God with ghost.

1) The Christian Trinity concept.
2) The Holy Ghost.

Religious beliefs can cause all sorts of odd justifications, but waring with the English language, come on now...
Holy Ghost
Overview
The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit (like a ghost), without a body of flesh and bones (like a ghost).
(Words in bold are my additions)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

[Inquirer]

What evidence do you have to support your contention that God and ghost mean the same thing? You said it yet cannot defend it. You have conflated God with ghost.

1) The Christian Trinity concept.
2) The Holy Ghost.

Religious beliefs can cause all sorts of odd justifications, but waring with the English language, come on now...
Holy Ghost
Overview
The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit (like a ghost), without a body of flesh and bones (like a ghost).
(Words in bold are my additions)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

You are aware I hope, that "trinity" does not appear in either the Hebrew OT or Septuagint or Greek NT? you are asking me questions about something which is itself speculative and the result of a particular interpretation of ancient texts?

Where in your Bible did you read "The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead"? or did you just see this and assume it was Biblical? that's not the thoroughness I'd expect from such a vocal advocate of science and rationality and logic.

If you do not believe in God or regard the Bible as supernaturally inspired, then on what basis can you endorse trinitarianism?

[otseng]

that's not the thoroughness I'd expect from such a vocal advocate of science and rationality and logic.

Moderator Comment

Please debate without commenting on others.

Please review the Rules.





______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Clownboat]

What evidence do you have to support your contention that God and ghost mean the same thing? You said it yet cannot defend it. You have conflated God with ghost.

1) The Christian Trinity concept.
2) The Holy Ghost.

Religious beliefs can cause all sorts of odd justifications, but waring with the English language, come on now...
Holy Ghost
Overview
The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit (like a ghost), without a body of flesh and bones (like a ghost).
(Words in bold are my additions)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

You are aware I hope, that "trinity" does not appear in either the Hebrew OT or Septuagint or Greek NT? you are asking me questions about something which is itself speculative and the result of a particular interpretation of ancient texts?

Where in your Bible did you read "The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead"? or did you just see this and assume it was Biblical? that's not the thoroughness I'd expect from such a vocal advocate of science and rationality and logic.

If you do not believe in God or regard the Bible as supernaturally inspired, then on what basis can you endorse trinitarianism?

This thread is not about the many Christian doctrinal contradictions.

However, I agree with you that the Trinity concept is a delusion which some might take as a suggestion that religious beliefs are in fact delusional. We can at least agree that the Christian Trinity concept is a delusion! Perhaps the talking animals, living in a whale and resurrections are also delusional? Hmmm....

I appreciate the insight!

[Inquirer]

What evidence do you have to support your contention that God and ghost mean the same thing? You said it yet cannot defend it. You have conflated God with ghost.

1) The Christian Trinity concept.
2) The Holy Ghost.

Religious beliefs can cause all sorts of odd justifications, but waring with the English language, come on now...
Holy Ghost
Overview
The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit (like a ghost), without a body of flesh and bones (like a ghost).
(Words in bold are my additions)
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

You are aware I hope, that "trinity" does not appear in either the Hebrew OT or Septuagint or Greek NT? you are asking me questions about something which is itself speculative and the result of a particular interpretation of ancient texts?

Where in your Bible did you read "The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead"? or did you just see this and assume it was Biblical? that's not the thoroughness I'd expect from such a vocal advocate of science and rationality and logic.

If you do not believe in God or regard the Bible as supernaturally inspired, then on what basis can you endorse trinitarianism?

This thread is not about the many Christian doctrinal contradictions.

However, I agree with you that the Trinity concept is a delusion which some might take as a suggestion that religious beliefs are in fact delusional. We can at least agree that the Christian Trinity concept is a delusion! Perhaps the talking animals, living in a whale and resurrections are also delusional? Hmmm....

I appreciate the insight!

A delusion is a subjective experience first and foremost. To the person experiencing it it has a real effect, experiencing a delusion is a real experience, like when we dream. If you experience something that I do not then does that make it a delusion?