Scientific thinking and common sense

[Eloi]

I have noticed that sometimes people with a scientific mind, people who have studied a lot and know a lot of information about different sciences, do not notice simple things that do not escape the attention of ordinary people, even if they have studied less or almost nothing.

For example, the fact that the animals that evolutionists call "lower" in the evolutionary scale still live alongside humans, and that others supposedly fitter, because they are located in a higher position in the evolutionary line of man, no longer exist.

Evolutionary theory holds that as animals progressed up the evolutionary scale, they became more capable of surviving. Why, then, is the “inferior” ape family still in existence, but not a single one of the presumed intermediate forms, which were supposed to be more advanced in evolution? Today we see chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans, but no “ape-men.” Does it seem likely that every one of the more recent and supposedly more advanced “links” between apelike creatures and modern man should have become extinct, but not the lower apes? https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101985017

To what extent do you think the "wisdom" of this system of things can cloud a person's mind?

[Inquirer]

Whatever you were "immersed in" it was unhelpful to you it seems.

Based on what?

Based on a defence mechanism that allows a person to maintain a belief by convincing oneself that whatever you were "immersed in" it had to be unhelpful.

The evidence for this is that Inquirer would not know how Jose was immersed, but however he was immersed, it just had to be unhelpful.
Readers, how could anyone have this kind of knowledge about Jose? They can't, yet I submit that the belief is going to be maintained anyway as it justifies the end goal.

Joey can't understand the Bible and Jose was immersed in unhelpful ways. Sure seems like a defense mechanism at play to me.

Please don't start with the personal attacks again. Kindly stick to the subject without resorting to amateur psychiatric evaluations of your opponent.

[Clownboat]

That's a matter of opinion, my words are not his words go and compare them word for word.

The idea is the same even though not word for word.

No, its the truth, if he understood it would not seem nonsensical.

Readers, let's test this claim.
Are these things sensical?:
- 6,000 old earth.
- Global flood
- Men living insainly long lives.
- Talking donkeys.
- Living in a fish/whale for days.
- Dead bodies reanimating.

I submit that no amount of understanding makes the above claims as being sensical.

Keep in mind, the Bible isn't as hard to understand for everyone as it seems to be for yourself.

Tell that to Joey then, he claims its nonsensical now you claim otherwise.

'Nonsensical' and 'not hard to understand' are two different concepts. You error when you conflate them.

Actually its impossible for humans to understand without God's help.

Another defense mechanism...

[Inquirer]

That's a matter of opinion, my words are not his words go and compare them word for word.

The idea is the same even though not word for word.

No, its the truth, if he understood it would not seem nonsensical.

Readers, let's test this claim.
Are these things sensical?:
- 6,000 old earth.
- Global flood
- Men living insainly long lives.
- Talking donkeys.
- Living in a fish/whale for days.
- Dead bodies reanimating.

I submit that no amount of understanding makes the above claims as being sensical.

Keep in mind, the Bible isn't as hard to understand for everyone as it seems to be for yourself.

Tell that to Joey then, he claims its nonsensical now you claim otherwise.

'Nonsensical' and 'not hard to understand' are two different concepts. You error when you conflate them.

Actually its impossible for humans to understand without God's help.

Another defense mechanism...

If you honestly wanted to discuss the subject, you'd discuss the subject not me.

[Jose Fly]

Based on a defence mechanism that allows a person to maintain a belief by convincing oneself that whatever you were "immersed in" it had to be unhelpful.

Yup.

The evidence for this is that Inquirer would not know how Jose was immersed, but however he was immersed, it just had to be unhelpful.
Readers, how could anyone have this kind of knowledge about Jose? They can't, yet I submit that the belief is going to be maintained anyway as it justifies the end goal.

Joey can't understand the Bible and Jose was immersed in unhelpful ways. Sure seems like a defense mechanism at play to me.

Exactly. Inquirer knows little to nothing about the churches I've attended or the people who attended them. All he knows for sure is that I'm not a Christian, which therefore must mean those environments and people couldn't have been helpful.

Pretty simplistic thinking, and as you astutely note, a transparent defense mechanism.

[Jose Fly]

Understanding comes from God

Understanding of what exactly?

not from living in a "Christian" family or community.

If that's true, whether or not the Christian environments I grew up in were "helpful" is irrelevant, correct?

[Clownboat]

Whatever you were "immersed in" it was unhelpful to you it seems.

Based on what?

Based on a defence mechanism that allows a person to maintain a belief by convincing oneself that whatever you were "immersed in" it had to be unhelpful.

The evidence for this is that Inquirer would not know how Jose was immersed, but however he was immersed, it just had to be unhelpful.
Readers, how could anyone have this kind of knowledge about Jose? They can't, yet I submit that the belief is going to be maintained anyway as it justifies the end goal.

Joey can't understand the Bible and Jose was immersed in unhelpful ways. Sure seems like a defense mechanism at play to me.

Please don't start with the personal attacks again. Kindly stick to the subject without resorting to amateur psychiatric evaluations of your opponent.

Readers, there is nothing in the reply for me to debate, so I'll just point this out:

Notice that my evidence was not addressed. A shame really as that could show that I'm wrong and must correct my thinking. Instead, of addressing the evidence supplied, the victim card is being played.

Is it a personal attack to point out that Inquirer would not know how Jose was immersed, yet came to the conclusion that it 'had to be unhelpful' however it happened?
Is it a personal attack to suggest that what I'm seeing, 'seems' like a defense mechanism at play to me?

Seriously, how can it be justified that Joey can't understand the Bible and that Jose was immersed in unhelpful ways? I can't help as to how this seems.

[Clownboat]

That's a matter of opinion, my words are not his words go and compare them word for word.

The idea is the same even though not word for word.

No, its the truth, if he understood it would not seem nonsensical.

Readers, let's test this claim.
Are these things sensical?:
- 6,000 old earth.
- Global flood
- Men living insainly long lives.
- Talking donkeys.
- Living in a fish/whale for days.
- Dead bodies reanimating.

I submit that no amount of understanding makes the above claims as being sensical.

Keep in mind, the Bible isn't as hard to understand for everyone as it seems to be for yourself.

Tell that to Joey then, he claims its nonsensical now you claim otherwise.

'Nonsensical' and 'not hard to understand' are two different concepts. You error when you conflate them.

Actually its impossible for humans to understand without God's help.

Another defense mechanism...

If you honestly wanted to discuss the subject, you'd discuss the subject not me.

I am discussing the subject, with the readers.

Again:
Readers, let's test this claim.
Are these things sensical?:
- 6,000 old earth.
- Global flood
- Men living insainly long lives.
- Talking donkeys.
- Living in a fish/whale for days.
- Dead bodies reanimating.

I submit that no amount of understanding makes the above claims as being sensical.

This was to the readers and you do not have to respond of course. You could provide a defense of these beliefs as being sensical and then you and I might have something to discuss. For now, I am addressing the readers.

[Inquirer]

Understanding comes from God

Understanding of what exactly?

Revealed spiritual knowledge, for example:

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

and this, even the Jews of the day, those who claimed to understand God, those who studied the scripture routinely - did not understand:

Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Understanding includes the acknowledgement to one's self that one has been in error, that one has mis-understood, the beginning of understanding is to grasp that one has misunderstood, until that time one is lost, wandering in a fog and unaware of it.

not from living in a "Christian" family or community.

If that's true, whether or not the Christian environments I grew up in were "helpful" is irrelevant, correct?

The obvious point is, it didn't help you, people can't help you, all understanding comes from God.

[JoeyKnothead]

Understanding comes from God, not from living in a "Christian" family or community.

You can't even show your favored god exists, much less could be understood.

[Jose Fly]

Revealed spiritual knowledge, for example:

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

and this, even the Jews of the day, those who claimed to understand God, those who studied the scripture routinely - did not understand:

Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Understanding includes the acknowledgement to one's self that one has been in error, that one has mis-understood, the beginning of understanding is to grasp that one has misunderstood, until that time one is lost, wandering in a fog and unaware of it.

So God reveals these things through people who then write the revelations into scripture, but the only way anyone can actually understand any of it is if the same God provides a subsequent revelation, on an individual basis.

Is that what you're describing?

The obvious point is, it didn't help you, people can't help you, all understanding comes from God.

So what do you say to folks who specifically asked God to help them understand, but got nothing?