Please prove that souls exist and that they are either resurrected or reincarnated

[Compassionist]

Most religions claim that souls exist. Some religions claim that souls are immortal and are reincarnated after the death of the body while other religions claim that souls are immortal and are resurrected after the death of the body. Can anyone please prove that souls exist and are either resurrected or reincarnated? Thank you.

[marke]

The images seem to be digital creations instead of being a true image of reality.

It's difficult to capture the unseen world on film. Even so, there's a glimpse at a soul leaving its body shortly after death that was captured on camera, and which has been included in the article.

Hardly the high standard of evidence and rigorous proof that’s demanded of scientists in, say, evolutionary research, is it?

Perhaps if they are so willing to Photoshop ‘evidence’ in, they can’t be trusted to claim anything about souls, spirits or the like.

Marke: Those who deny the spiritual aspects of humans have no proof to support their atheistic opinions.

[Diagoras]

Marke: Those who deny the spiritual aspects of humans have no proof to support their atheistic opinions.

Are you familiar with Bertrand Russell’s teapot?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

This whole thread has been an opportunity for those who believe in the existence of a soul to provide some evidence. Note the name of the sub-forum.

All any atheist can say is that they do not believe in souls because no strong evidence for them has ever been presented. In much the same way as evidence for Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Loki, fairies and leprechauns is lacking. So it’s hardly the ‘gotcha’ statement to say I ‘have no proof’. That’s literally the point: until some solid proof is presented, there’s no good scientific reason to believe in such things.

[A Freeman]

One of many books on Near Death Experiences (NDEs):

Return from death: An exploration of the near-death experience by Margot Grey

From back cover: For those who have been close to death, even survived 'clinical death', a remarkable experience occurs which has become known as the Near-Death Experience. Margot Grey describes how people close to death undergo a sense of euphoria and floating out of one's body, entering a dark tunnel and emerging to encounter a brilliant light and experiencing a panoramic life review. The Near-Death Experience often has a profound effect on the person who experiences it and can lead to spiritual awakening and psychic development. The fear of death tends to diminish and in many cases a total personality transformation occurs.

-------

As someone who has personally had an out of body experience, I can say, with absolute certainty, that I am NOT the human body that is seen in a mirror or from outside of the body. The author cited above likewise had an NDE, which is what motivated her to do the extensive research that she did, to write the book.

For those who wish to believe that they are nothing more than human animals with obscene bodily functions, that get old and die, there's no amount of evidence that will convince them otherwise. Only when they see their own body from outside of it (which has actually happened to each of us many, many times before), will they understand who and what they really are.

2 Corinthians 12:2-6
12:2 I knew a man in Christ over fourteen years ago, (whether IN the body, I cannot tell; or whether OUT OF the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether IN the body, or OUT of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not possible for a man to utter.
12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, except in mine weaknesses.
12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say The Truth: but [now] I refrain, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be], or [that] he heareth of me.

[marke]

Marke: Those who deny the spiritual aspects of humans have no proof to support their atheistic opinions.

Are you familiar with Bertrand Russell’s teapot?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

This whole thread has been an opportunity for those who believe in the existence of a soul to provide some evidence. Note the name of the sub-forum.

All any atheist can say is that they do not believe in souls because no strong evidence for them has ever been presented. In much the same way as evidence for Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Loki, fairies and leprechauns is lacking. So it’s hardly the ‘gotcha’ statement to say I ‘have no proof’. That’s literally the point: until some solid proof is presented, there’s no good scientific reason to believe in such things.

Marke: Claiming that Christians must prove souls exist while non-believers have no responsibility to prove souls don't exist is a cheap dishonest ploy that can never prove one way or the other whether souls exist or not.

[A Freeman]

Excerpt below from:
https://www.historicmysteries.com/unexp ... eory/1042/

The 21 Grams Theory was a hypothesis of Dr. Duncan MacDougal who suggested that human souls have mass. He conducted various tests in 1901 to measure the weight of a soul.

On 10 April 1901, an unusual experiment was about to occur in Dorchester, Massachusetts. Dr. Duncan MacDougall was going to prove that the human soul had mass, and was, therefore, measurable.

Experiments Conducted on Dying Patients

Dr. MacDougall conducted this experiment on six dying patients placed on specially made Fairbanks weight scales just prior to their deaths. Dr. MacDougall’s intention was to weigh each body before and after death to determine any differences measured by the delicate scales. The patients were selected based upon their imminent death. Two patients were suffering from tuberculosis, 5 were men and one was a woman.


Unexplained Mysteries
Weighing Human Souls – The 21 Grams Theory
by Jim H January 27, 2010
0

The 21 Grams Theory was a hypothesis of Dr. Duncan MacDougal who suggested that human souls have mass. He conducted various tests in 1901 to measure the weight of a soul.

On 10 April 1901, an unusual experiment was about to occur in Dorchester, Massachusetts. Dr. Duncan MacDougall was going to prove that the human soul had mass, and was, therefore, measurable.
Experiments Conducted on Dying Patients

Dr. MacDougall conducted this experiment on six dying patients placed on specially made Fairbanks weight scales just prior to their deaths. Dr. MacDougall’s intention was to weigh each body before and after death to determine any differences measured by the delicate scales. The patients were selected based upon their imminent death. Two patients were suffering from tuberculosis, 5 were men and one was a woman.
21 grams article on Duncan MacDougallArticle on Duncan MacDougall

In the company of four other doctors, Dr. MacDougall carefully measured the weight of his first patient prior to his death. Once the patient died, an interesting event occurred.

"Suddenly, coincident with death, the beam end dropped with an audible stroke hitting against the lower limiting bar and remaining there with no rebound. The loss was ascertained to be three-fourths of an ounce."

The experiment continued on the next patient with the same results. Dr. MacDougall felt he was on to something extraordinary. A quote from the 11 March 1907 New York Times article captures the historic moment:

“The instant life ceased the opposite scale pan fell with a suddenness that was astonishing – as if something had been suddenly lifted from the body. Immediately all the usual deductions were made for physical loss of weight, and it was discovered that there was still a full ounce of weight unaccounted for”.

All Patients Lost Weight After Death

All five doctors took their own measurements and compared their results. Not all the patients lost the same weight, but they did lose something that could not be accounted for. Unfortunately, only four of the six patient’s results could be used due to mechanical failures or the patient dying prior to the test equipment being in place.

But what about the consistent weight loss? The doctors took everything into account, from the air in the lungs to bodily fluids. It still could not be explained. An interesting variation occurred on the third patient, who maintained his same weight immediately upon death. But after one minute, he lost about an ounce of weight. Dr. MacDougall explained this discrepancy as follows:

"I believe that in this case, that of a phlegmatic man slow of thought and action, that the soul remained suspended in the body after death, during the minute that elapsed before its freedom. There is no other way of accounting for it, and it is what might be expected to happen in a man of the subject’s temperament."

Human Souls Weigh 21 Grams

Following the experiment and consulting with the other attending physicians, the average weight loss of each person appeared to be ¾ of an ounce. Dr. MacDougall concluded a human soul weighed 21 grams.

Dr. MacDougall conducted the same experiment on 15 dogs. The experiments showed no change in weight following their death. MacDougall concluded that this may signify only humans have souls.

H. LaV. Twining, a physics teacher at Los Angeles Polytechnic High School, attempted the same experiment on mice in 1917. His conclusion was in line with that of Dr. MacDougall. There was no deviation of weight when the mice died.

[Clownboat]

Marke: Claiming that Christians must prove souls exist while non-believers have no responsibility to prove souls don't exist is a cheap dishonest ploy that can never prove one way or the other whether souls exist or not.

marke: "Souls exist!"
Any human that isn't marke: "Can you show that you speak the truth?"
marke: "You can't show that souls don't exist and that is dishonest!" (In bold of course)
Any human that isn't marke: "I don't think you understand how the burden of proof works." (Pats marke's head and walks away wondering if marke will ever learn about the burden of proof and what it means).

[Clownboat]

Excerpt below from:
https://www.historicmysteries.com/unexp ... eory/1042/

The 21 Grams Theory was a hypothesis of Dr. Duncan MacDougal who suggested that human souls have mass. He conducted various tests in 1901 to measure the weight of a soul.

On 10 April 1901, an unusual experiment was about to occur in Dorchester, Massachusetts. Dr. Duncan MacDougall was going to prove that the human soul had mass, and was, therefore, measurable.

Experiments Conducted on Dying Patients

Dr. MacDougall conducted this experiment on six dying patients placed on specially made Fairbanks weight scales just prior to their deaths. Dr. MacDougall’s intention was to weigh each body before and after death to determine any differences measured by the delicate scales. The patients were selected based upon their imminent death. Two patients were suffering from tuberculosis, 5 were men and one was a woman.


Unexplained Mysteries
Weighing Human Souls – The 21 Grams Theory
by Jim H January 27, 2010
0

The 21 Grams Theory was a hypothesis of Dr. Duncan MacDougal who suggested that human souls have mass. He conducted various tests in 1901 to measure the weight of a soul.

On 10 April 1901, an unusual experiment was about to occur in Dorchester, Massachusetts. Dr. Duncan MacDougall was going to prove that the human soul had mass, and was, therefore, measurable.
Experiments Conducted on Dying Patients

Dr. MacDougall conducted this experiment on six dying patients placed on specially made Fairbanks weight scales just prior to their deaths. Dr. MacDougall’s intention was to weigh each body before and after death to determine any differences measured by the delicate scales. The patients were selected based upon their imminent death. Two patients were suffering from tuberculosis, 5 were men and one was a woman.
21 grams article on Duncan MacDougallArticle on Duncan MacDougall

In the company of four other doctors, Dr. MacDougall carefully measured the weight of his first patient prior to his death. Once the patient died, an interesting event occurred.

"Suddenly, coincident with death, the beam end dropped with an audible stroke hitting against the lower limiting bar and remaining there with no rebound. The loss was ascertained to be three-fourths of an ounce."

The experiment continued on the next patient with the same results. Dr. MacDougall felt he was on to something extraordinary. A quote from the 11 March 1907 New York Times article captures the historic moment:

“The instant life ceased the opposite scale pan fell with a suddenness that was astonishing – as if something had been suddenly lifted from the body. Immediately all the usual deductions were made for physical loss of weight, and it was discovered that there was still a full ounce of weight unaccounted for”.

All Patients Lost Weight After Death

All five doctors took their own measurements and compared their results. Not all the patients lost the same weight, but they did lose something that could not be accounted for. Unfortunately, only four of the six patient’s results could be used due to mechanical failures or the patient dying prior to the test equipment being in place.

But what about the consistent weight loss? The doctors took everything into account, from the air in the lungs to bodily fluids. It still could not be explained. An interesting variation occurred on the third patient, who maintained his same weight immediately upon death. But after one minute, he lost about an ounce of weight. Dr. MacDougall explained this discrepancy as follows:

"I believe that in this case, that of a phlegmatic man slow of thought and action, that the soul remained suspended in the body after death, during the minute that elapsed before its freedom. There is no other way of accounting for it, and it is what might be expected to happen in a man of the subject’s temperament."

Human Souls Weigh 21 Grams

Following the experiment and consulting with the other attending physicians, the average weight loss of each person appeared to be ¾ of an ounce. Dr. MacDougall concluded a human soul weighed 21 grams.

Dr. MacDougall conducted the same experiment on 15 dogs. The experiments showed no change in weight following their death. MacDougall concluded that this may signify only humans have souls.

H. LaV. Twining, a physics teacher at Los Angeles Polytechnic High School, attempted the same experiment on mice in 1917. His conclusion was in line with that of Dr. MacDougall. There was no deviation of weight when the mice died.

It's telling that in order to justify the idea of a soul, dishonesty is required.
If souls were real, we would detect them, not perpetuate lies for them.

How cool would it be if bodies actually lost 21 grams upon death! I would be fascinated myself and would want to learn more even though the religious would assume I wouldn't. Alas, its nothing but hog wash and hooey though.

Results:
One patient lost weight. But then gained it back again. Two other patients lost weight at death. But then lost even more weight a few minutes later. One patient lost “three-fourths of an ounce” (21.3 grams) in weight at the time of death.

The experiment is not considered good science. This is because of the small sample size, the methods used, and the fact only one of the six subjects met the hypothesis.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_grams_experiment

Sorry A Freemen, but you have been lied to. Please don't perpetuate the lie no matter how bad you want souls to be real.

[Diagoras]

One of many books on Near Death Experiences (NDEs):

Return from death: An exploration of the near-death experience by Margot Grey

<snip>

The Near-Death Experience often has a profound effect on the person who experiences it and can lead to spiritual awakening and psychic development.

By their nature, NDE’s are subjective and vulnerable to confirmation bias. Also, what does ‘psychic development’ mean?

As someone who has personally had an out of body experience, I can say, with absolute certainty, that I am NOT the human body that is seen in a mirror or from outside of the body.

What you describe here bears some similarity to a ‘depersonalization-derealisation disorder’. Obviously, I’m not saying this is what you have, but I make the point that an alternative explanation for what you describe exists that has been medically studied.

For those who wish to believe that they are nothing more than human animals with obscene bodily functions

Saying ‘obscene’ there could be a further indication for something like Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID), where someone feels a sense of discomfort about part of their body.

Any near-death experience can cause significant psychological changes though. That’s not in dispute. And on a forum like this, it’s important to stress that such changes don’t mean anyone is ‘bad’ or ‘crazy’. Here’s a non-judgmental and factual resource:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... condition.

[A Freeman]

One of many books on Near Death Experiences (NDEs):

Return from death: An exploration of the near-death experience by Margot Grey

<snip>

The Near-Death Experience often has a profound effect on the person who experiences it and can lead to spiritual awakening and psychic development.

By their nature, NDE’s are subjective and vulnerable to confirmation bias. Also, what does ‘psychic development’ mean?

As someone who has personally had an out of body experience, I can say, with absolute certainty, that I am NOT the human body that is seen in a mirror or from outside of the body.

What you describe here bears some similarity to a ‘depersonalization-derealisation disorder’. Obviously, I’m not saying this is what you have, but I make the point that an alternative explanation for what you describe exists that has been medically studied.

For those who wish to believe that they are nothing more than human animals with obscene bodily functions

Saying ‘obscene’ there could be a further indication for something like Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID), where someone feels a sense of discomfort about part of their body.

Any near-death experience can cause significant psychological changes though. That’s not in dispute. And on a forum like this, it’s important to stress that such changes don’t mean anyone is ‘bad’ or ‘crazy’. Here’s a non-judgmental and factual resource:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... condition.

It would be fair to say that your reply is nothing more than the expression of baseless opinion, on a subject you have no personal knowledge about.

You may want to rethink that approach, as it really doesn't help anyone, including you.

[Clownboat]

One of many books on Near Death Experiences (NDEs):

Return from death: An exploration of the near-death experience by Margot Grey

<snip>

The Near-Death Experience often has a profound effect on the person who experiences it and can lead to spiritual awakening and psychic development.

By their nature, NDE’s are subjective and vulnerable to confirmation bias. Also, what does ‘psychic development’ mean?

As someone who has personally had an out of body experience, I can say, with absolute certainty, that I am NOT the human body that is seen in a mirror or from outside of the body.

What you describe here bears some similarity to a ‘depersonalization-derealisation disorder’. Obviously, I’m not saying this is what you have, but I make the point that an alternative explanation for what you describe exists that has been medically studied.

For those who wish to believe that they are nothing more than human animals with obscene bodily functions

Saying ‘obscene’ there could be a further indication for something like Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID), where someone feels a sense of discomfort about part of their body.

Any near-death experience can cause significant psychological changes though. That’s not in dispute. And on a forum like this, it’s important to stress that such changes don’t mean anyone is ‘bad’ or ‘crazy’. Here’s a non-judgmental and factual resource:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... condition.

It would be fair to say that your reply is nothing more than the expression of baseless opinion, on a subject you have no personal knowledge about.

You may want to rethink that approach, as it really doesn't help anyone, including you.

False. It is silly to call it a baseless opinion when information/evidence was provided for us all to view. That makes it the opposite of what you claim it to be, so it is you that should rethink your approach.

I for one learned from the reply (things about DDD and BIID specifically). From just that one reply two alternative possible options were presented. I get it, you would like your explanation to be the only option presented, but your wants are irrelevant and the disorders that were presented are in fact valid.

Your reply failed to address these possible explanations and equates to sticking your head in the sand.