A Christian world without science

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:06 am

What would the world look like if science had never developed?
One could assume we would still be wearing sack clothes and riding asses (so to speak) and chariots. No flight, no round earth, no solar system, no social or cultural science, no dentistry, no anthropology, no physics, just the same profound ignorance of the world.

Would the church have evolved in the same way it did? If not, in what ways might it be different?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:39 am

QED wrote:
Cmass wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
I think we are all scientists.

No, we all may "do science" to some degree, but we are not all scientists. My Grandfather was a world-renowned scientist who spent his career working for Merck developing anti-inflamatories. On the other hand, George Bush is not a scientist. In fact, one might argue (on another thread) that he is utterly devoid of curiosity and incapable of scientific thought.
Sure, but there is still a good reason to say that "we are all scientists". The reason being that some people take things to the other extreme and feel that there is no such thing as valid science. Yet these same people are employing the scientific method nearly every waking moment. Just picking things up and balancing them so they don't spill or fall is something that requires a valid scientific approach.

Is that why things keep on falling everyplace around me. All those spills, a thrill a minute.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:41 pm

Is this problem-solving? Yes. Is it "science"? Not formally, but it follows scientific thinking. Do we keep track of our experimentation in our Lab Notebook? No. We do this kind of thinking innately.

Great post Jose. 5 tokens for you.

I said this a couple of times earlier: I am talking about formal science and scientist dedicated to their field of science.
If the formal architecture of science as we know it today never developed and the rule of the church was supreme, would we still be living in the dark ages or landing robots on Mars?

jjg · Post by **jjg** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:20 pm

Europe evolved around the church and so did Western Universities including Cambridge, Oxford, University of Paris and Bologna.

The Jesuits have always been at the forefront of science as the link shows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:27 pm

jjg wrote:Europe evolved around the church and so did Western Universities including Cambridge, Oxford, University of Paris and Bologna.

The Jesuits have always been at the forefront of science as the link shows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

A few don't make the whole lot. So did Islam.
Evolved doesn't make it better or worse.

jjg · Post by **jjg** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:35 pm

Your saying Western civilization's advancements are not something the Church and us can't be proud of.

The Church built 88 Universities in the Middle Ages, hardly a few.

Islam did as well which lays this whole silly argument of placing religion against science and education to rest.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:34 pm

As long as they are ashamed of other things they can't be proud of then I guess they can be as proud as they want but it isn't like they created science or learning they did some good and some evil. It isn't like they brought enlightenment. They brought misery too. Or maybe there is no bragging because they just happened to be part of what happened.
Lets say the Gnostics won. What would have happened? Or what if the Jews has won the first war? It is all an accident, the what of history but it all contributes. Nothing to be proud of nothing to be ashamed of .Had it been different it would be different. It is a factor but irrelevant as far as pride goes.
I get this funny feeling that you want to take credit for all the good in the world and blame Satan for everything else.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:52 pm

I think we have all swerved off track from my OP. I did not want to begin a debate over whether or not the Church played a role in funding schools.
Here is my OP minus my flame bate commentary:
What would the world look like if science had never developed?
Would the church have evolved in the same way it did? If not, in what ways might it be different?

jjg · Post by **jjg** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:45 am

Cathar, it couldn't be you just have a hard time admiting that you are wrong. Universities, science, law, economics, agriculture advancements and art etc. are not enlightenment by your standards.

Cmass, your question is worded wrong. The question is would science be what it is today without the church.

Certain passages in Scripture say that God ordered everything in measure and number and the Church believed that it is through human reasoning that we come to know God so that is why science developed out of the Church.

The pagans deified nature too much to take science to more evolved levels. It was the Christians belief in a God that transcends nature and nature iss God's effect that allowed science to develop.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:17 am

Cmass, your question is worded wrong. The question is would science be what it is today without the church.

No, I worded it correctly. Although I think your question would indeed make a good thread.

methylatedghosts · Post by **methylatedghosts** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:11 am

jjg wrote:The pagans deified nature too much to take science to more evolved levels. It was the Christians belief in a God that transcends nature and nature iss God's effect that allowed science to develop.

This comment I am very confused about. How do pagans defy nature? A belief system around earth mother, and being one with nature

(BTW, although under my usergroups it says "Pagan", I am not pagan, I am more...... a spiritualist(maybe?).... dunno, I don't like putting myself in one category because that excludes me from others - which is not always the case. Pagan is the closest I could find to spirituality)