Can a timeless God exist?

[Cmass]

I am starting a thread based upon a comment I made in another:
Change and time go hand in hand.
Without time there is nothing. You cannot go from one event to another. That is why there is no God. (beyond the multitude of other reasons) If God is "timeless" then God is changeless. If God is changeless, then he cannot change anything.
Nothing to nothing from nothing.
Can a timeless God exist?

[Cathar1950]

Saul of Tarsus was a well educated Jew who persecuted Christians.

Yes, I think it negates your argument.

You do not even have an argument and you don't seem to understand what I am saying that alone offer a refutaion.
You only have scant details from Paul's real letters and Acts which are at odds in even the details.

[jjg]

Okie dokie.

This isn't the first time where your arguments wind up by you saying I have no proof.

Then I provide ample proof like the Trinity argument and I easily could for the argument about Paul. But you wouldn't even look at the evidence and write it off as "vague and ambiguous."

[Cathar1950]

Okie dokie.

This isn't the first time where your arguments wind up by you saying I have no proof.

Then I provide ample proof like the Trinity argument and I easily could for the argument about Paul. But you wouldn't even look at the evidence and write it off as "vague and ambiguous."

Just because you present arguments it does not make them valid persuasive or acceptable. Obviously others and mine don't do it for you. I am now wondering what your point was.
I say most of the gospels and writings except Paul are by gentile Pauline Christians and you respond back with “Was Paul a gentile?”. I mention others and you come back with little known characters that may or may not have been the authors with good doubting reasons, about rather some of them went to synagogue.
I am sure could easily do anything but that does not make it successful.

[Goat]

Okie dokie.

This isn't the first time where your arguments wind up by you saying I have no proof.

Then I provide ample proof like the Trinity argument and I easily could for the argument about Paul. But you wouldn't even look at the evidence and write it off as "vague and ambiguous."

Give me evidence that Paul was a Jew besides him saying "to the jews, I am a jew" when it comes to him mimic those whom he is trying to preach to. That line , in context, tells me he trys to be convincing by pretending to be just like the one he is trying to convert.

[jjg]

You didn't say except Paul. You implied that Paul was not a Jew, the writings of him were from gentiles and went in another post implying even more that Paul was not a Jew when in fact he was a Pharisee and strict observer of the Jewish traditions.

Paul being a Pharisee alone disputes your whole argument that Paul's "Christianity" was warped by Greek thinking.

Many different sources say that the Gospels were written by Mark and Matthew and John and although nothing is absolute in terms of empirical evidence, there is no reason to believe they were not written by those men and their followers.

I question everything you say when you start pronouncing Paul as a gentile.

Besides, who is off topic? You brought up the writings of the Gospels and who the authors are. the topic is about God and time.

[Goat]

You didn't say except Paul. You implied that Paul was not a Jew, the writings of him were from gentiles and went in another post implying even more that Paul was not a Jew when in fact he was a Pharisee and strict observer of the Jewish traditions.

Paul being a Pharisee alone disputes your whole argument that Paul's "Christianity" was warped by Greek thinking.

Many different sources say that the Gospels were written by Mark and Matthew and John and although nothing is absolute in terms of empirical evidence, there is no reason to believe they were not written by those men and their followers.

I question everything you say when you start pronouncing Paul as a gentile.

Besides, who is off topic? You brought up the writings of the Gospels and who the authors are. the topic is about God and time.

What evidence do you have that Paul was a Pharasee. His theology was very different than the Pharisees.

[Cathar1950]

Mack was saying this:

I know where this is going to go next: God is beyond the universe and temporal existence in a transcendent plane with a warp core drive tippity tap tap.

No, I had not gone that far. Simply either God is limited in space time, God is beyond both space and time or God does not exist. At the risk of presenting a false dilemma, there simply are no other choices except that relativity is wrong.

I felt he was making a good point even if it is limited do to the many views of God. With my rather experiece focus of time and my rejection of dualism I was compelled to agree.
Bernee:

There is nothing except 'now' and that now is eternal. We all exist in the 'now'. The concept of time is purely human - it allows us to relate. Pure (root) consciousness - Self - is eternal - it is only the sense of an individual self that is restricted in 'time'

Then Bernee made some good point about time, now and eternity and ended with a comment about the NT people reading the OT I think we can all agree they didn't read the NT.

bernee, are you saying there is no past events and no possibility of future events.

There are events which we call 'past'. We can only assume there will be eventsd in what we call the future. None of these are 'real', as in extant.

Time is a succession of events.

Time is how a succession of events is described - it is not the events themselves.

Your whole concept of eternal Self is just as subjective as the concept of time.

The Self (root consciousness) cannot be observed.

Your whole comment of of self being eternal and individual self being temporal is a comment relating eternity and time and contradicts your later statement.

Why would you think that?

What else is self but an individual's self?

You tell me. What is the answer to the question "Who am I".? Anything you describe is the sense of the individual self. Have the things you describe changed over time? Who is describing? Is 'root consciousness' different now to then?

Because God as First cause must be transcendent to time.

Anything that doesn't exist is transcendent of time.

The New Testament doesn't negate the Old, it fulfills it.

I wonder if the writers of the NT ever read the OT.

Then I made some smart ass comments about the NT and because you were rattling on about:

First cause must be transcendent to time.

The New Testament doesn't negate the Old, it fulfills it.

So How do we get back to time and God?

[bernee51]

Historical events occured and affect our "real" events to day.

That is an observation from the 'now'.

The self cannot be observed? I think therefore I am.

I would suggest that "I think therefore I believe I am what I think I am" would be a more accurate statement.

If you are talking about infinite recursive thinking then that's just chasing your tail in a circle.

That is not at all what I am stating. The Self is the screen onto which the self (i.e. sense of the individual self - the ego) is projected.

We can reason that God the first cause exists and is transcendent of time.

I can reason that there is no first cause and that existence is transecedent of time.

As Jewish people raised in the Jewish tradition, it is sae to assume they read the old Testament.

It could also be assumed then that the NT was written to affirm the OT.

[jjg]

That's what I said. It's a relationship in our minds.

Simple thinking simplifies it. The only thing you cannot doubt is doubt itself.

It is recursive thinking, nothing more. What else does Self mean but individual self?

You can argue against First cause, but we can debate that somewhere else.

Affirming by fulfilling.

[Cmass]

Bernee, this is priceless:

I would suggest that "I think therefore I believe I am what I think I am" would be a more accurate statement.

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Is God CAPABLE of CHANGING His mind? Does God have the POWER or ABILITY to change his mind based on ANYTHING you do?

Think carefully about this.........I might be setting a trap! Snap!!Bang! YEEEEow!