Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is

[paarsurrey1]

Revealed-Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is "man-made", is it so?

Regards

[marco]

So, one means, if I have correctly understood one's expression, that obvious facts are not open to discussion.
But why, please?

There is great merit, paarsurrey, in challenging the obvious. But to do so you will have to provide wonderful arguments. Fact: religions are all about people, by people, and their beliefs.
I invite you to challenge that and I can't wait to open your surprise parcel. Warm wishes.

[paarsurrey1]

Just to remind that our discussion is about the "Revealed-Religion", as mentioned in the original post # 1*, and not about religion, please.

What other obvious facts of science come into one's mind, please?

Regards

*"Revealed-Religion is "man-made" is like saying universe is "man-made", is it so?"

[marco]

Just to remind that our discussion is about the "Revealed-Religion", as mentioned in the original post # 1*, and not about religion, please.

Then you have built your proof into your hypothesis, paarsurrey. This is called "begging the question."

Revealed religion is one that was founded by God. Therefore revealed religion is not man-made, because it was instituted by God. Q.E.D I suppose.

But the little guy in the back seat will disconcertingly ask: How do you know you have the "revealed religion" (assuming there is one) ? Best wishes

[paarsurrey1]

So, one means, if I have correctly understood one's expression, that obvious facts are not open to discussion.
But why, please?

There is great merit, paarsurrey, in challenging the obvious. But to do so you will have to provide wonderful arguments. Fact: religions are all about people, by people, and their beliefs.
I invite you to challenge that and I can't wait to open your surprise parcel. Warm wishes.

marco
Fact comes from the Latin verb facere, the supine part of which is factum, and it originally meant something done or made. It means something that is true. If there is any debate about the truth of something then it is NOT a fact.

Who had "done" or "made" the fact/s originally, please?

Anything which has not been "made" by artificial means or humans we call it "made by God". Is it a fact, please?

If yes, then Universe is not man-made but it is "made by God" in the above sense. Right, please?

Regards

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 22 by benchwarmer]

Please don't be angry my friend.
It was a simple question and another poster has answered it. Do you agree with the meaning of the word "fact" given by another friend (Marco) in the forum in Post 18, please:

"Fact comes from the Latin verb facere, the supine part of which is factum, and it originally meant something done or made. It means something that is true. If there is any debate about the truth of something then it is NOT a fact."

Regards

[marco]

Anything which has not been "made" by artificial means or humans we call it "made by God". Is it a fact, please?

If yes, then Universe is not man-made but it is "made by God" in the above sense. Right, please?

Regards

Here's what you are saying:

Something not made by man has been made by God.
The universe was not made by man.
Therefore the universe was made by God.

The conclusion is valid but not sound since we cannot say that the first premise is true. Among believers in a faith it's fair enough to present such statements as true. Here we question and both sides are required to bring forward arguments, not assertions. I have no idea how the universe started, if it started; nor do I know if what we see is reality or just an image of a real world, as Plato speculated. God is a convenient explanation. Go well.

[paarsurrey1]

It will be considered totally out of place and sheer irrational if one says that the universe is man-made; the same way it will be sheer wrong to say that truthful-religion or the Word Revealed is man-made.

There is no such thing as a truthful-religion.

All religions are faith-based. That is to say that to place your faith in them is wishful thinking.

No religion has ever been shown to be truthful.

Certain specific religions can be demonstrated to be clearly false. All the Abrahamic religions fall into that category. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all clearly false religions. There can be no doubt about this because the mythological tales they are based upon can be shown to be necessarily false.

There are a few religions that are extremely difficult to demonstrate to be necessarily false. Those would be the pantheistic or panentheistic religions. This is because these religions don't make claims that are demonstrably false like the Abrahamic religions do. Of course this doesn't make the pantheistic religions false.

Moreover, even the pantheistic religions are still "man-made". They are simply man-made religions that could potentially be true anyway. But the Abrahamic religions are clearly man-made religions that can't possibly be true due to the self-contradictory nature of their own claims.

So all religion is man-made. But some of the more mystical religions could also coincidentally happen to be true.

Keep in mind that the idea of Solipsism is a man-made idea. Yet Solipsism cannot be demonstrated to be false either. But this, of course, does not automatically make it true.

All religions are faith-based.

All forms of no-religion are also faith-based, please.
Regards

[marco]

All forms of no-religion are also faith-based, please.

Interesting view. Many atheists once belonged to a religion, that is they had faith; they rejected their religion by a process of reasoning. Atheism or agnosticism is based not on faith, but its abandonment.

Numbers mean nothing since the vast majority of followers simply tumbled into their belief system at birth. I derive my views from years of study, thought and reading. I would say most religious people have got their views from their parents. Reason is not involved in most cases. If you have reached your views through reason it would be interesting to hear that reasoning process.

[H.sapiens]

It will be considered totally out of place and sheer irrational if one says that the universe is man-made; the same way it will be sheer wrong to say that truthful-religion or the Word Revealed is man-made.

There is no such thing as a truthful-religion.

All religions are faith-based. That is to say that to place your faith in them is wishful thinking.

No religion has ever been shown to be truthful.

Certain specific religions can be demonstrated to be clearly false. All the Abrahamic religions fall into that category. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all clearly false religions. There can be no doubt about this because the mythological tales they are based upon can be shown to be necessarily false.

There are a few religions that are extremely difficult to demonstrate to be necessarily false. Those would be the pantheistic or panentheistic religions. This is because these religions don't make claims that are demonstrably false like the Abrahamic religions do. Of course this doesn't make the pantheistic religions false.

Moreover, even the pantheistic religions are still "man-made". They are simply man-made religions that could potentially be true anyway. But the Abrahamic religions are clearly man-made religions that can't possibly be true due to the self-contradictory nature of their own claims.

So all religion is man-made. But some of the more mystical religions could also coincidentally happen to be true.

Keep in mind that the idea of Solipsism is a man-made idea. Yet Solipsism cannot be demonstrated to be false either. But this, of course, does not automatically make it true.

All religions are faith-based.

All forms of no-religion are also faith-based, please.
Regards

That is simply false.

[paarsurrey1]

It will be considered totally out of place and sheer irrational if one says that the universe is man-made; the same way it will be sheer wrong to say that truthful-religion or the Word Revealed is man-made.

There is no such thing as a truthful-religion.

All religions are faith-based. That is to say that to place your faith in them is wishful thinking.

No religion has ever been shown to be truthful.

Certain specific religions can be demonstrated to be clearly false. All the Abrahamic religions fall into that category. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all clearly false religions. There can be no doubt about this because the mythological tales they are based upon can be shown to be necessarily false.

There are a few religions that are extremely difficult to demonstrate to be necessarily false. Those would be the pantheistic or panentheistic religions. This is because these religions don't make claims that are demonstrably false like the Abrahamic religions do. Of course this doesn't make the pantheistic religions false.

Moreover, even the pantheistic religions are still "man-made". They are simply man-made religions that could potentially be true anyway. But the Abrahamic religions are clearly man-made religions that can't possibly be true due to the self-contradictory nature of their own claims.

So all religion is man-made. But some of the more mystical religions could also coincidentally happen to be true.

Keep in mind that the idea of Solipsism is a man-made idea. Yet Solipsism cannot be demonstrated to be false either. But this, of course, does not automatically make it true.

All religions are faith-based.

All forms of no-religion are also faith-based, please.
Regards

That is simply false.

So one doesn't have any faith or trust in Atheism. Really?

Regards