How should evolution be taught differently?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Jose
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How should evolution be taught differently?

Post #1

Post by Jose »

otseng wrote:
Jose wrote:Of course, we need to do a better job of teaching the science, and we need to teach evolution differently so that it makes sense...but that's another issue.
That's an interesting statement, "we need to teach evolution differently so that it makes sense". Are you implying that current methods of teaching evolution does not make sense? If so, what changes should occur to have it make sense?
I have claimed that we should teach evolution differently. I have my own opinions about current methods, and about alternative methods (which I use), but first let's think about it more fully:
  • How many of us think that our high school classes gave us a good understanding of evolution? Maybe if we all think we understand it perfectly, and thus accept it as valid, then we don't need this thread. It doesn't seem that we all feel this way, however...
  • What are some specific problems with current teaching of evolution? Let's be specific here, rather than just say "it's a fairy tale" or "it's a religion" or "it's not how God did it."
  • What parts of evolutionary theory do you feel are unsupported, vague, or simply "asserted to be so"?
  • What do you think needs to be done to fix this? Creationists may say "throw it out," but this isn't a likely option. Nor is it useful to say "teach creationism alongside," because that doesn't improve the teaching of evolution. We need recommendations for how to solve the problems revealed by the answers to the first questions.
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Post #21

Post by Jose »

ST88 wrote:There is one variable that outpaces all the others when evaluating student performance in terms of post-graduate (K-12) success, and that's teacher quality. There are many textbook publishers who don't want to face this -- instead of advocating for better recruitment of quality people, educators in power would rather trust the textbooks and curricula that the successful teachers use in order to replicate their success. It's easier, less controversial, and less expensive.
Teacher quality is a big variable. I've worked with teachers who are terrific, but who describe colleagues as basically marking time until retirement. I get the feeling, though, that some of these teachers were beaten down by the system. It's hard to put educational reforms into place when the principal and superintendant say "we have to meet these benchmarks, as demonstrated by this test." It gets even worse when, as you say, they rely on the textbooks. The textbook review project of the American Academy for the Advancement of Science did not find many positive things to say about most textbooks.
ST88 wrote:But even setting aside all that, the practical application theory of education is a slippery slope that causes education to focus on trades instead of learning. Literature education, practically speaking, is useless and an argument can be made that it is harmful. The same things can be said for music, most athletics, foreign languages (except Spanish here in California & other places), physics, chemistry (outside the kitchen), anatomy, calculus, and many other subjects.
One should not advocate practical applications of what is taught, as much as demonstration that what is taught has relevance. We've reached the point (or, perhaps, remained at the point for many students) that school becomes irrelevant by definition. One student calculated that she had spilled 10,000 gallons of gasoline from her car because it had warmed up during the day. Why didn't she correlate this with the fact that she has a Honda Civic, which does not have a 10,000 gallon tank, and suspect that she had made an error in the calculation? She said, "it's just a physics problem." In other words, science isn't supposed to make sense.

If we give them this kind of problem early, where the examples come from the real world, then they might see that there's a connection. Our builder did a lot of algebra and trigonometry when he was building our house. I'd designed it, but we were required by law to have the plans drawn "officially"--using a CAD program that couldn't handle some of the quirks (like stairs with 12-inch treads instead of 10-inch treads). So, we did the re-calculations on-site. Biology? There's a whole heck of a lot of it that relates to food, and, of course, what goes on inside of us. A lot of that is chemistry. So is paint.

But you know all of this, so I won't rant further. Basically, students often don't put effort into stuff that they don't think concerns them. It all does, in various ways, but we usually hide those connections from them. More accurately, perhaps, we either mention them briefly in passing, or expect students to see the connections as "obvious." Why not use examples they can relate to? (Well, we can't use all such examples. There was a chemistry teacher who was recently fired because he used synthesis of methamphetamine as an example...)
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Post #22

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Titan wrote:The book begins with the history of evolution. It does talk about directional selection and disruptive selection but in the context of natural selection (my book is on www.biology.com, if you wanted to see it, it is the fifth edition). They talk about point mutations in relation to DNA resequencing along with a few other things.
If it's Neil Campbell's book, then it's as good as they come. Even so, I'd approach it the other way around (in fact, I do). I think we need to start with the molecules, and make it really, really clear how mutations alter proteins, and how proteins alter phenotypes. Without this, the whole natural selection thing is fuzzy. I'd come back to the history, and ask how Wallace and Darwin figured it out with so much less evidence. I came up with this sequence, by the way, in teaching non-majors, who had biology between 4 and 8 years before, hated it, and didn't remember very much. It's a fun challenge.
Titan wrote:I've always had a problem with embryology because I would expect them all to look similar. Think about it, the organism needs to develop certain organs in order, they are living in a fluid filled sack so they need gills. The thing that I find fascinating is that if they are so similar then why doesn't a bird embryo become a human once in a while. I realize that this sounds inane, I think so to. But you have to understand that differences in DNA are still fairly big. Look at the difference between man and monkeys. We have a high rate of protein similarities but we are still quite different.
First, the gills. Mammals, at that stage, aren't breathing at all, whether by gills or anything else. They're getting everything from Mom, and using Mom's system to take in oxygen and get rid of CO2. In birds, and reptiles, they manage gas exchange through the eggshell (permeable to O2 and CO2, but not to H2O). Exactly how they handle it, I'm not sure. We should check with some chicken physiologists. I'd guess that their circulatory system manages to get close enough to the shell to manage gas exchange, but exactly where, I can't say. I'd better look it up, I guess.

You've hit on an interesting puzzle, there, with the similarity of embryos. The YECs like to say that Haeckel fudged his drawings, so it's not true, but the real embryos really are remarkably similar. At that early stage, all of our body plans are pretty much the same. What differs is basically the relative proportions of the parts that form later. The plans for those parts are set up when the organ first starts forming, and is really tiny. At that size, diffusion of small molecules, and of short-range protein hormones, along with cell contact, determines the relative numbers of cells that will form each part.

We all use pretty much the same genes to do these things. You know, the Hox genes, Sonic Hedgehog, etc. The differences are partly small differences in the sequences of the proteins themselves, but mostly differences in the patterns of expression of the genes. It doesn't take much to change the sensitivity with which gene-expression control mechanisms respond to the concentrations of small molecules. Nor does it take much to cause a particular developmental pathway to reiterate itself. Compare us to snakes, and count the rib-bearing vertebrae. Snakes just repeat the rib-production developmental pathway more than we do. Compare broccoli and cabbage to their wild cabbage ancestor (all the same species). Broccoli has a mutation that results in reiteration of the flower-development pathway. Cabbage reiterates the leaf initiation pathway. So, I'd say: look at the final animals, and think about how easily you could morph one into the other. All of the parts are basically the same, just somewhat different sizes and shapes--and that's determined by the patterns of expression of developmental control genes.
Titan wrote:Another oddity. The horse shoe crab has evolved very little over the span of many generations. Why is that? Shouldn't the organisms that are evolving more win out in the end? Shouldn't the horse shoe crab have to constantly adapt?
Fossil horseshoe crabs are not identical to current horseshoe crabs, so it's clear that evolution has occurred. The reason that the body plan has remained so similar is that it works. There may be various species that are offshoots from the horseshoe crab lineage, but these guys are so successful in their environment that they've out-competed any newcomers. I guess we'd call it "stabilizing selection," which has worked against significant changes in the species.
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Post #23

Post by Titan »

I don't agree with the theory that Haeckel fudged the images. There are the images from a Creationist book, in the picture they give Haeckel was right but he did not give the complete story. I have the image but I don't know how to paste the picture and I don't know if I'm allowed.

My book is written by Neil Campbell and it is very good.

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Post #24

Post by Jose »

Titan wrote:I don't agree with the theory that Haeckel fudged the images. There are the images from a Creationist book, in the picture they give Haeckel was right but he did not give the complete story. I have the image but I don't know how to paste the picture and I don't know if I'm allowed.

My book is written by Neil Campbell and it is very good.
Good. Campbell does a good job.

You can insert an image if it is already uploaded somewhere. The Img button above the text-composition window provides the basic BBCode for doing so. I don't see any compelling reason not to link to it, since the URL is accessible--unless the site asks not to link to it. In any event, I think it is generally agreed that Haeckel was a bit "optimistic" in his drawings, and did make them a bit more similar than the real embryos are. But, the new books have correct images. Often, they include photos. It is clear that there are remarkable similarities--which attest to the genetic similarities among species.

The creationist ploy is to jump on Haeckel's bit of fudging, and on his "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" hypothesis, and say that he was wrong--but evolutionists still use his drawings to "prove" evolution. The average person, if tempted to look into this, will see drawings that are similar to Haeckel's. They will find that we have, indeed, abandoned "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" (which never really made sense, anyway). They probably will not, however, read the text carefully enough to see that we are using more accurate drawings and coming to a different conclusion.

It's the same ploy as with the peppered moths. "Ooh! They put them on tree trunks! They fudged the data! Therefore all evolutionists are wrong." Well, yeah, they put the moths on tree trunks. Moths naturally rest on tree trunks next to branches where they are a bit more hidden. Of course, birds know to look for them there, and camoflage does make a difference. Ignore the subtleties, find one thing you can jump on, and claim that it nullifies the whole thing. If you say it often enough, and loud enough, people will begin to believe you.
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Post #25

Post by YEC »

It seems as if the evos are use to fudging...

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/ ... 04,00.html

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Post #26

Post by Titan »

It seems as if the evos are use to fudging...
That is unfair, even if I disagree with what they were trying to prove I don't think you made your point. The issue was about one German scientist who fudged a fossil. That doesn't mean that all evolutionists, nor most, are used to doing the same.

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Post #27

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It seems as if the evos are use to fudging
YEC. From the article it seems that the "fudging" was uncovered by other "evos" and they used radiocarbon dating to do it. Are you actually agreeing with both evolutionists AND radiocarbon dating results?

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Post #28

Post by Jose »

YEC wrote:It seems as if the evos are use to fudging...

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/ ... 04,00.html
That's an interesting story. It turns out there are wackos in every field, who are quite happy making things up. In science, at least, they are eventually discovered. Part of the reason is that it is intensely competitive, with everyone checking and rechecking their competitors work.

Now, if we all had a pre-determined conclusion that we were all working toward convincing the world is Absolute Truth, then maybe the deceit of a few wouldn't be uncovered. Everyone might agree with it, and look no further.

You have--again, thank you!--shown us the integrity of the scientific enterprise. The occasional wacko eventually gets caught, and the story is straightened out.
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Post #29

Post by juliod »

In science, at least, they are eventually discovered.
It's interesting, since this is a education thread, that in science fakes and frauds can still be used in the classroom as examples of the scientific method.

By contrast, in the creationist world the discovery of a fake or fraud must be covered up, denied, and allowed to perpetuate. This is because active members of creationist circles must take an oath of loyalty to creationism. Exposing a fraud might lead to lose of confidence in creationism, and is therefore prohibited.

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Post #30

Post by Samurai Tailor »

juliod wrote:By contrast, in the creationist world the discovery of a fake or fraud must be covered up, denied, and allowed to perpetuate. This is because active members of creationist circles must take an oath of loyalty to creationism.
It is for this reason that I find it terribly curious that such organizations even bother to attack evolution on its own turf. Any conclusion mustered by one of their researchers is immediately greeted with deserved skepticism because their methodology is flawed from the outset.

It is certainly no help to their demands to be extended leeway in peer review.

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