Bones of Contention.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:24 pm

Creationist professor Marvin Lubenow contends in his 2004 edition of "Bones of Contention" that all neo-Darwinist theories about the origins and evolution of the human race are a scientific form of racism. Being somewhat familiar with the several claims, arguments and ramifications of his thesis, I am prepared to defend his claim that neo-Darwinist theories of human origins and evolution are theoretically racist should anyone care to debate and substantiate their claim to the contrary.

perfessor · Post by **perfessor** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:42 am

jcrawford wrote:Instances of abuse, denial of rights, ill treatment, or some other form of oppression are obviously evident in all historic and contemporary neo-Darwinist teachings of human evolution out of Africa.

This should be easy to parse.

Instances of abuse

Please name one.

denial of rights

Please give one concrete example.

ill treatment

ditto

or some other form of oppression

Should be easy for you...

are obviously evident

If they are so obvious, humor me with one. I have asked for such numerous times. No more generalities. One. Example. Please.

On the off chance that you actually do believe that you have already done so, be advised that saying "neo-Darwinist theories are obviously racist" is an assertion, not an example.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:38 am

perfessor wrote:
jcrawford wrote:Instances of abuse, denial of rights, ill treatment, or some other form of oppression are obviously evident in all historic and contemporary neo-Darwinist teachings of human evolution out of Africa.
If they are so obvious, humor me with one. I have asked for such numerous times. No more generalities. One. Example. Please.

Leaving aside the numerous horrific instances of neo-Darwinist abuse and mistreatment of other people in history which Lubenow so expertly documents in his seminal treatise on the human fossil record, I will only point to the many hostile and suppressive attacks on all those students, parents, teachers and school board members who currently wish to dispute and challenge neo-Darwinist race theories about the human race's ancestral descent from some pre-supposed common ancestors of modern African apes, monkeys and chimpanzees.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:28 am

I will only point to the many hostile and suppressive attacks on all those students, parents, teachers and school board members who currently wish to dispute and challenge neo-Darwinist race theories about the human race's ancestral descent from some pre-supposed common ancestors of modern African apes, monkeys and chimpanzees.

Leaving aside whether there are really any such 'attacks', this is not racism because, even if the attacks exist, the people being attacked are not being attacked because of their race.

perfessor · Post by **perfessor** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:35 am

Can't do it, can you?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:28 pm

Can you point them out these so called;

I will only point to the many hostile and suppressive attacks on all those students, parents, teachers and school board members who currently wish to dispute and challenge neo-Darwinist race theories about the human race's ancestral descent from some pre-supposed common ancestors of modern African apes, monkeys and chimpanzees.

You sound like your taking the the other sides and making their point. You know creationist.
They are not disputing Races theories they are trying to preach The Bible.
They need classes.
It sounds like your presenting a racist theory of racist evolution with no data or evidence except feeling and half baked opinion.
I think your idea is racist and subversive.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:47 pm

micatala wrote:
Leaving aside whether there are really any such 'attacks', this is not racism because, even if the attacks exist, the people being attacked are not being attacked because of their race.

That's not an entirely accurate description or assessment of the racial animosity being displayed against those members of the human race who care to publically dispute, debate, deny and denounce the public teaching of neo-Darwinist racial theories of the human race's descent from some non-human species or 'race' of African ape ancestors.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:49 pm

perfessor wrote:Can't do it, can you?

I did it. Why deny it?

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:02 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:
It sounds like your presenting a racist theory of racist evolution with no data or evidence except feeling and half baked opinion.
I think your idea is racist and subversive.

Whether a "subversive racist theory, idea and half-baked opinion" or not, the thesis charging "racist evolution" is originally Lubenow's, not mine, and contains sufficient scientific documentation and evidence to warrant its usage as a reference text in public schools, libraries and courts of law.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:08 pm

jcrawford wrote:That's not an entirely accurate description or assessment of the racial animosity being displayed against those members of the human race who care to publically dispute, debate, deny and denounce the public teaching of neo-Darwinist racial theories of the human race's descent from some non-human species or 'race' of African ape ancestors.

False yet again. Swing and a miss yet again. I think that makes about strike 27.

"those members of the human race who care to publically dispute, debate, deny and denounce the public teaching of [neo-Darwinism]" do not constitute a race, not by any of the definitions of race offered by you or anyone else.

Thus, no racial animosity, no racism, nothing.

The fact that scientists and educators have good reasons for including the theory of evolution as part of science education, and that you and others wish not to accept those good reasons, does not make scientists and educators wrong, and it is completely ridiculous and slanderous to suggest they are racist.

You previously claimed several times that you were not accusing neo-Darwinists of racism (only the theory), but now you have claimed that those who defend the teaching of evolution in schools "display racial animosity." Most people would conclude that you must be lying in either one case or the other.

I'm not going to ask you to tell us which case it is, as your posts continue to make assertions that are either demonstrably false or completely unstubstantiated, and many are pointless as well. I expect your answer in this case will be the same.

Goodbye.

jcrawford · Post by **jcrawford** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:56 pm

micatala wrote:
False yet again. Swing and a miss yet again. I think that makes about strike 27.
Since when is the pitcher also the umpire outside of neo-Darwin land?

"those members of the human race who care to publically dispute, debate, deny and denounce the public teaching of [neo-Darwinism]" do not constitute a race, not by any of the definitions of race offered by you or anyone else.
They certainly are members of the human race if not it's sole constituents, and denying their human origins in accordance with neo-Darwinist race theories about their origins, constitutes racism against them, according to Oxford definitions of race and racism.

The fact that scientists and educators have good reasons for including the theory of evolution as part of science education, and that you and others wish not to accept those good reasons, does not make scientists and educators wrong, and it is completely ridiculous and slanderous to suggest they are racist.

It's not slanderous if what is said about them is true.

You previously claimed several times that you were not accusing neo-Darwinists of racism (only the theory), but now you have claimed that those who defend the teaching of evolution in schools "display racial animosity." Most people would conclude that you must be lying in either one case or the other.
When otherwise harmless supporters of neo-Darwinist race theories in public education go so far as to politically attack members of the human race who deny their biological descent from common ancestors of apes in Africa, then perhaps it is time to academically recognize and politically protest their expressed racial animosity towards other members of the human race.