Science vs Science

[Creed]

I was so sick and tired of scientists talking about the impossible to prove God did not exist, so I thought, they're using fire so why can't I? This thought process was developed by me during a period of meditation and constant reasoning. My thoughts started to wander by them selfs, like someone took my hand and was showing me the truth, unimportant. I will use metaphors that you can easily understand so i can get my point across quickly, I have to write a paper tonight. Here I go.. proving God exists in 1000 words or less.

The first concept you must understand is that through freewill you have an unlimited amount of choices. Do to the amount of degrees in a circle and the number of pi, we can conclude an unlimited amount of choices we have to move our hand at any one time. To accept this one fact is to accept that you have an unlimited amount of choices. Yes your choices are limited to the ones you are aware of, but you chose to be aware of a certain selection from infinity.

Where does this go you may ask? Luckily I had some guidance..

Now the metaphor.. Your brain is like a computers hard drive in that it has a finite amount of storage capacity before it reaches full. Now to understand this you have to understand how a computer works. A computer has information.. choices.. but a finite amount of them.. and would be impossible to program infinite amount of choices into a finite object as each choice programed would require room and compile to infinity. Therefore you can say that you can not create AI, you can only simulate AI. Since we have the infinite amount of choices as expressed in step 1 we can conclude that our consciousness does not exist within our body, but rather I would suggest it exists in a form that coincides with the universe simply because there is an infinite amount of space. (Please don't argue there is an end to the universe because you could not describe it, vi save there cant be nothing outside of it.) At this point in my article it is futile to describe to you where the consciousness lies, but I can assure you I have proven it is not in your body, to contradict this reasoning is to be just as ignorant as atheists argue Christians are.

And so we approach the subject of God..
How do I know he exists? The answer is simple, a program can not write itself. -the writer must of understood infinity and could define it.

What is he? A consciousness that understands and can define infinity. If you could understand infinity within the confines of your consciousness I believe you could break reality and mold it.

What do I hope of achieving after writing this? nothing much, just really really needa start my essay so I gotta stop typing. I will leave you here, accept reason or not, the choice is now on your end of the table.

Welcome to reason.

[Creed]

Yes your choices are limited to the ones you are aware of, but you chose to be aware of a certain selection from infinity.

I do not recall making that choice. I have now chosen to be aware of all choices.
...waiting....waiting....nope, I am still not aware of an infinite number of choices.

Debunked this thru testing.

Sorry if my conversation leads into and out of conscious / subconscious choice without telling you but I figured a well educated person could see the difference. Please think for more than 3 seconds before responding. To become aware of an unlimited amount of choices is to live actively in the present state. You can not be away if your mind is closed. Perhaps it has something to do with how much I can comprehend that makes the difference, or simply time. Being aware of infinite amounts of choices simply means knowing that you can do anything you want in any order you wish. and wait.. you want to argue there is an end to the universe? the most easiest argument won.. If an object exists there must be space around it, or another object encompassing it vi save infinite space must exsist because space as an object can not exist inside of itself.

I just figured out the reason some people can't understand, please all I ask is time before you go any further. I'll post here in a while once I put the thoughts together.

[McCulloch]

futile attempts at debunking..

We did not think so. Please, oh great thinker, be more specific about where our arguments are flawed.

so you say you don't have infinite amount of choices?

Choices are discrete so the correct word is number rather than amount. Yes, I say that we do not have an infinite number of choices.

since our argument hinges on this point. not to do so means you would have no free will, instead you would admit to being a randomization program choosing between set paths. you can accept you have free will or deny your humanity, deny that you have the right to chose your destiny. The main point is you can do ANYTHING you want, this constitute infinite amount of choices.

There is so much seriously flawed logic here I don't quite know where to start. You have not shown that free will implies infinite choice. You have not shown that humans have free will. You have not properly defined free will. You have not shown that free will is implicit in humanity.

I cannot do anything I want. For example, I cannot reach through this computer screen and shake some sense into you.

Your still using your brain.. not your consciousness to try to comprehend this.

You have not shown that our consciousness is not contained in each of our brains.

You people hear rationalization and you pick it apart saying you need "proof" that you have an unlimited amount of choices, what kind of a question is this? Of course you do. You call it an abstract but thats just an excuse to deny its existence, thats like saying there is and end to the universe. From a single point there are is a infinite amount of angles that something can be from it.

Actually there is not. Look up Planck's constant and learn about quantum physics.

There are no perfect circles in existence because we can't understand infinity or create it, also feeding my argument.

Help us poor dumb bunnies along here. I don't quite see how this feeds your argument.

At this point I can not help you to understand infinity because you can't use words, just I would ask you to sit there, where you are right now, think of all the things you can do and how many ways you can do it.

That's all right, I already understand a number of different infinities. Here's a primer: Hotel Infinity. Georg Cantor had a lot to say about infinity. You might want to learn more about infinity before you pretend to understand it.

If you want to go into more depth, any standard undergrad math faculty should be able to help you. Or you could look at Infinity: The Quest to Think the Unthinkable by Brian Clegg, for a popular historic review.

[Wyvern]

To become aware of an unlimited amount of choices is to live actively in the present state. You can not be away if your mind is closed. Perhaps it has something to do with how much I can comprehend that makes the difference, or simply time. Being aware of infinite amounts of choices simply means knowing that you can do anything you want in any order you wish.

Obviously you exist on a totally different plane of existence. What you say about infinite choices would be true if we lived in a universe that has no limiters. For a very simple example, in the real world making a meal consists of these steps; food prep, cooking, eating, and cleaning up afterwards. If I had a choice in the order this was carried out I would definately do the clean up first. Simply because I wish to do something does not make it a valid choice, we live in this world and it puts a lot of limits on us.

[Creed]

To become aware of an unlimited amount of choices is to live actively in the present state. You can not be away if your mind is closed. Perhaps it has something to do with how much I can comprehend that makes the difference, or simply time. Being aware of infinite amounts of choices simply means knowing that you can do anything you want in any order you wish.

Obviously you exist on a totally different plane of existence. What you say about infinite choices would be true if we lived in a universe that has no limiters. For a very simple example, in the real world making a meal consists of these steps; food prep, cooking, eating, and cleaning up afterwards. If I had a choice in the order this was carried out I would definately do the clean up first. Simply because I wish to do something does not make it a valid choice, we live in this world and it puts a lot of limits on us.

Quoting Lex Luther from superman "You're not seeing the big picture here." Oh sure I can cook a meal just as you say, but during that time I can stand on one foot, I can whistle a random tune, I could keep one eye shut, I could move my body in an infinite amount of ways like spontaneous dancing.. got class to go to was just cheaking.

[upallnite]

that maybe, but if you agree the consciousness is not in our body / mind, then could we also agree we don't lose existence when we die?

lol upallnite creating a consciousness ina a computer is like trying to create perpetual energy, you must see that. And furthermore please read my other posts about free will / choice.

First I do not agree that consciousness lives outside our body. There is evidence of consciousness in a body but no evidence where a body is lacking. Second, even if you show that it is not contained in the body then you still would not have shown that it exists after death. You have a long way to go.

I do not see why I "must see that". We already have thinking computers. What limit are you appalling to consciousness? I ask this because we already have conscious BINARY machines. Since such a simple platform can be conscious why not a more complex one?

Skynet is not amused with you!

Sorry if my conversation leads into and out of conscious / subconscious choice without telling you but I figured a well educated person could see the difference.

Then why is everyone's subconcious the exact same with this choice. I would think that some people would want to have this major benifit. You would have to show your reasoning for such a glaring error in subconscious selection.

To become aware of an unlimited amount of choices is to live actively in the present state.

I see no reason for such a statment. Where do you get this assertation from?

Being aware of infinite amounts of choices simply means knowing that you can do anything you want in any order you wish. and wait.. you want to argue there is an end to the universe?

The limits or lack there of have hypothesis and logical arguments for both sides. You have not toched on it at all. Again, you are making assertations and I am pointing them out.

space as an object

Space as in space-time? If that is what you are talking about then I don't think you know much about it if you are going to call it an object.

I just figured out the reason some people can't understand, please all I ask is time before you go any further. I'll post here in a while once I put the thoughts together.

That is fine. Take all the time you need. Just don't get upset if no one waits for the response.

[McCulloch]

I could move my body in an infinite amount of ways like spontaneous dancing.

No you cannot! Your body consists of a finite number of particles. They can be positioned in a finite number of ways. The number is very large, but it is not infinite. If you think that it is infinite, then you just don't grasp the meaning of infinite. ∞

[Creed]

I could move my body in an infinite amount of ways like spontaneous dancing.

No you cannot! Your body consists of a finite number of particles. They can be positioned in a finite number of ways. The number is very large, but it is not infinite. If you think that it is infinite, then you just don't grasp the meaning of infinite. ∞

I'm getting sick and tired of you not listening, this will be my last post, sure there a number of ways your body can arrange itself, but how you go about arranging those positions is completely infinite due to Pi. You chose a angle to move out of an infinite amount of angle to chose from, therefore constituting infinity.

[McCulloch]

I could move my body in an infinite amount of ways like spontaneous dancing.

No you cannot! Your body consists of a finite number of particles. They can be positioned in a finite number of ways. The number is very large, but it is not infinite. If you think that it is infinite, then you just don't grasp the meaning of infinite. ∞

I'm getting sick and tired of you not listening, this will be my last post, sure there a number of ways your body can arrange itself, but how you go about arranging those positions is completely infinite due to Pi. You chose a angle to move out of an infinite amount of angle to chose from, therefore constituting infinity.

I am listening. I am really sorry that you will not respond. Your ideas need help.

Pi is an irrational number. That means that it cannot be expressed as a ratio of integers. It implies that if you try to show a decimal representation of it, the digits will never end and never repeat. Pi does not prove that there are an infinite number of angles.

However, yes there are an infinite number of angles in the abstract. However, there are a finite number of angles that I can choose. This is because I cannot distinguish between 8.1231231231231° and 8.1231231231232°. Therefore, there is an extremely large number of ways that I can move my body, but it is not infinite.

This is only a minor flaw in your argument. Why don't you go back to the free will assumption?

[Creed]

i know pi is an irrational number but the number of angles from a single point are infinite thats what I was getting at. any help is welcomed. sorry i overreacted.

[McCulloch]

i know pi is an irrational number but the number of angles from a single point are infinite thats what I was getting at.

OK, but the number of angles that I can choose is finite. The number of places that I can position my index finger is finite. Limited by the available range of movement and by the available degree of accuracy. I have a finite number of joints, each with a finite number of angles available. Net result, there are a finite number of positions my body can assume.

any help is welcomed. sorry i overreacted.

It's all right. You're trying to express an idea that is clear in your mind, but we're just not getting it. Frustrating, eh?