Abortion and Marriage

[jcrawford]

What if abortions were kept legal within the reproductive and privacy rights granted in marriage only, and then only with consent of both spouses? If singles want either a child or an abortion, they would have to get parental consent or married, or would be considered married by the state, in either eventuality.

This way, all reproductive decisions would be made privately, by the parties concerned, and would be no one's else's business at all.

How would that play out in different scenarios, from a Christian or non-Christian POV?

[McCulloch]

Why go to all that trouble though, when it is perfectly obvious to every poster on the forum that we all have the right to ask and know someone else's religion. ...
Most private hospitals advertise their religious affiliation before you walk in the front door. What's wrong with abortion chambers doing the same thing, or someone publishing their religious affiliation or walking around in front of the business with a big sign advertising it?

You are lumping two things together. I am not denying that anyone has the right to ask anyone elses religion, although in certain cases it is against the law. It is illegal for an employer to ask a prospective employee about his or her religion. This is to prevent discrimination based on religion in the hiring process.
Back to the matter at hand. Any client of a clinic has the right to ask if the clinic has any religious affiliation. Any clinic has the right to publish its religious affiliation. However, you claimed that the "Consumers have a right to know their clinics or doctor's religious affiliation." This claim is, so far, baseless and unsupported and apparently unique to your own rich imagination.

[McCulloch]

... having the right to ask someone their religious affiliation implies the right to know it.

Please tell me your credit card numbers. I have the right to ask. Therefore, by your twisted logic, I have the right to know. Simply post them, with the expiry dates and your full name in a response. You can trust us.

Just in case anyone here misses the sarcasm. In our rules it is stated, "Do not post personal information about other people (license plate numbers, social security numbers, credit card numbers, phone numbers, etc). Information deemed personal by the moderators will immediately be edited. " If anyone is tempted to post such information here, it will be edited by a moderator without warning.

[McCulloch]

Why should a Jewish woman get an abortion from a Catholic doctor when there are plenty of Jewish abortionists around?

Why should a Jewish woman be forced to go to a Jewish abortionist if she is satisfied that the professional of her choice is competent? Why is jcrawford trying to create a religious apartheid?

If the abortionist refuses to direct the patient to a clinic of her religious choice, he could be sued for religious discrimination.

Only if she indicates that she has a religious choice. And even then probably not. I am unaware of any published lists of abortion clinics by religion. How exactly is the medical professional supposed to fulfil this obligation?

[Cephus]

I haven't changed the subject, since having the right to ask someone their religious affiliation implies the right to know it. You may have the right to personally withhold that information from me if you choose, but you can't stop me from making further enquires from other people or doing some other research in order to find out and know what your religion or religious affiliation is, and broadcast it to the world if I have the means.

You have as much right to their private information as they do to yours. If you don't mind them making inquiries about any information you might find private and personal, sure, go right ahead. Be a boorish ass.

[McCulloch]

You have as much right to their private information as they do to yours. If you don't mind them making inquiries about any information you might find private and personal, sure, go right ahead. Be a boorish ass.

Moderator Warning
It is uncivil to call another debater a "boorish ass".

[Cephus]

Moderator Warning
It is uncivil to call another debater a "boorish ass".

It's also a fact that if you go around making inquiries into someone's private life without permission, you are one. I never said jcrawford *WAS* one, I said that if he did, he would *BE* one.

[McCulloch]

I haven't changed the subject, since having the right to ask someone their religious affiliation implies the right to know it. You may have the right to personally withhold that information from me if you choose, but you can't stop me from making further enquires from other people or doing some other research in order to find out and know what your religion or religious affiliation is, and broadcast it to the world if I have the means.

You have as much right to their private information as they do to yours. If you don't mind them making inquiries about any information you might find private and personal, sure, go right ahead.

No, that is not true. Are you implying that if I am completely open about my own personal and private information, suddenly I am absolved of any obligation to respect others' confidential information?
Perhaps the person seeking an abortion has the right to ask if the abortion provider has a religious affiliation. The abortion provider has the right (but not the obligation) to answer such an inquiry. Third parties, the woman's parents, siblings, lovers, spouse, ex-spouse, children, mullah, priest, pastor, grocer and hairdresser have no rights to interfere with her choices.
The point that jcrawford is harping on is as far as I can see quite moot. How likely is it that the single daughter of a church elder who is pregnant and seeking an abortion, to ask at the clinic for a practitioner who shares her religion and will provide appropriate last rites for the aborted fetus? Can you imagine that the wife of a fundamentalist Muslim, who cannot bear to have another child and seeks an abortion, would want or care that the abortionist would be Islamic? Frankly, I just don't see what he is driving at.

[Cephus]

The point that jcrawford is harping on is as far as I can see quite moot. How likely is it that the single daughter of a church elder who is pregnant and seeking an abortion, to ask at the clinic for a practitioner who shares her religion and will provide appropriate last rites for the aborted fetus? Can you imagine that the wife of a fundamentalist Muslim, who cannot bear to have another child and seeks an abortion, would want or care that the abortionist would be Islamic? Frankly, I just don't see what he is driving at.

You have to remember, he wants control over what happens to the wives and daughters of Christian, Jewish and Islamic men. He doesn't get the fact that women, regardless of who they are related to, have rights of their own and don't have to run off to him for permission to live their lives. I'm sure that if the wives or daughters of Christian, Jewish and Islamic men cared about the religion of the person performing their abortion, they'd ask. Most likely, as you point out, they couldn't care less, but jcrawford doesn't like that, he wants to mandate that everyone act the way he wants them to act.

[jcrawford]

... having the right to ask someone their religious affiliation implies the right to know it.

Please tell me your credit card numbers. I have the right to ask. Therefore, by your twisted logic, I have the right to know.

If I was using a cc to make a purchase from you, you would have the right to know both the number and expiration date. What's twisted about that?

Likewise, if an individual was thinking of making a purchase from you and you refused to inform them of your religion or religious affiliation, they wouldn't be bound to buy from you.

[jcrawford]

Why should a Jewish woman get an abortion from a Catholic doctor when there are plenty of Jewish abortionists around?

Why should a Jewish woman be forced to go to a Jewish abortionist if she is satisfied that the professional of her choice is competent? Why is jcrawford trying to create a religious apartheid?

I'm trying to save atheists and secular Jews from being accused of killing any more innocent Catholic and Protestant babies without proper notification and informed consent.

I am unaware of any published lists of abortion clinics by religion. How exactly is the medical professional supposed to fulfil this obligation?

Volutarily, government mandate and registration, or public demand.