I am perplexed by fundamentalist christians that are always targeting gay people. They want to pass all sorts of laws restricting rights and privileges that everyone else has. What frustrates me the most is that they seem to be tunnel-visioned on gays. There are many things in the christian bible that they could talk about. I bet you there are more adulterers in the US than gay people and adultery is a ten commandments topic. What about honoring your parents? Can we focus on that for a while? This gay marriage thing being a religious idea only? I know of several religions that encourage gay people to find partners to marry including Unity, Unitarian Universalists and the Quakers.
I believe that gay people are the target because the christian religion, or its higher ups, have nothing else to target? They have lost the battle with alcohol and porn, they used to say black people couldn't marry white people but can't do that anymore. They try to stop drugs but you can't pass any more laws about that. Ok I'm being a bit out there, but really, Christianity has been losing its control over its flock for decades, if not centuries. Every sociologist and psychology person can easily see that when someone or some group sees its former control waning they will do anything to regain it. It's a desparate act. These fundamentalist christians have to find something to rally the troops.....wha-laa!.....gay people. A marginalized group in our over masculinized, sports culture that many people feel uncomfortable with. From history, the Nazi's for example, we know that hate is an excellent way to mobilize a group.
Isn't it blatantly unconstitutional to forbid the marriage of two people? In Virginia they want to outlaw any 'marraige like' contracts between two people of the same sex, doesn't that seem unconstitutional? The sodomy laws that Chief Justice Souter condemned was obviously directed at gay men. The 14th amendments says no state shall pass a law abridging the rights of its citizens. The only people saying I cannot marry another guy is christians? Right there we have a church-state conflict.
Ok, let me have it!
Why are gay people a Christian target?
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Colorado127
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Post #361
The title of this debate topic IS "Why are GAY people a Christian target"
There appears to be a number of reasons for this....
homophobia
ignorance
bigotry
zealotry
In addition to this there is a notion that all people ( gay or not ) should
conform to some nebulous notion of christian values.
There appears to be a number of reasons for this....
homophobia
ignorance
bigotry
zealotry
In addition to this there is a notion that all people ( gay or not ) should
conform to some nebulous notion of christian values.
Post #362
There it is.Chimp wrote:The title of this debate topic IS "Why are GAY people a Christian target"
There appears to be a number of reasons for this....
homophobia
ignorance
bigotry
zealotry
In addition to this there is a notion that all people ( gay or not ) should
conform to some nebulous notion of christian values.
Stupidity and accusation when all else fails.
Homophobia? When did tolerance for another persons viewpoint become teaching anal sex to children in the education environment as anything but insanity. Medical science is ignored by whom and what? Certainly NOT the Christian.
Ignorance is trying to justify sex acts that cannot be justified. And borderes on much worse.
Bigotry? Like thinking that Christians are forcing their religion on a society that has willingly embraced sexuality and sexualization as its first form of worship? Picked up ANY magazine lately? Or, watched ANY TV? Or walked in ANY city? It is the Christians that are not tolerated when they speak up at the very schools where "diversity" is promoted?
Now the "zealous." As someone who has lived IN the gay community in LA has had and has friends that are homosexual, one thing drives the homosexual agenda and that is "Activism!" A very excited and high-pitched form of activism. Otherwise known as being zealous for your beliefs. The closet has long since been vacated by sexual deviants. Empiricism drives home that point.
Please visit any homosexual activism website and see zealous people driving their agenda forward.
Homosexuals will not tolerate ANY dissent from their agenda. If any voice is raised in opposition to justifying unnatural sexuakl acts as being equal to the normal functions of the human body, proven without debate by anatomy, physiology and biolgy and DNA, homosexuals will call out "bigot and homophobe."
The education setting IS the debate forum. And the homosexual agenda will allow no voice of opposition. None.
Christians are individuals that were NOT Christians before "choosing" their faith and perspective. Just people. But they will not be given the right to have an opinion or have their education degrees recognized without being denigrated and reduced to nothing.
Why are gay people a Christian target is "fronting." Through out a charge and watch the opposition be trivialized and afraid.
But Christians come from the very world that others promote as "normal and natural." Christians are not "born that way." Empiricism drives them to their independent and individualized choice.
And that is not tolerated.
Post #363
big·ot
n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
ho·mo·pho·bi·a
n. 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
from www.Dictionary.com
Calling me stupid does not advance your position, in fact, it reflects
more on you than me.
n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
ho·mo·pho·bi·a
n. 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
from www.Dictionary.com
Calling me stupid does not advance your position, in fact, it reflects
more on you than me.
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azchurchmouse
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Post #364
Alright..... Why are Gays a target? I do not believe most Christians target gays to be mean spirited. I believe most Christians stand on scripture the same scripture that has stood for over 2000 years, that says, homosexuality is an abomination. They want Christians to change how they and the church today view homosexuality.
I think peoples problem is not with tolerance, but with Jesus' authority. They don’t want to be told what they are doing is wrong. And the person telling them, is called intolerant. The Christian is the one who is intolerant.
Show me any, ANY scripture in the Old or New Testament, where God talks about blessing same sex marriage or unions of any kind. Explain to me why he never mentioned gay love in Genesis? All marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman.
The fair reading of Leviticus proves that God calls homosexuality an abomination and these opinions can't be set aside. The New Testament speaks with even more clarity about homosexuality. There is strong condemnation of ALL sexual sin in the Bible, whether it’s homosexual OR heterosexual.
Why should churches remain silent on this issue and cave into political correctness? God didn't. He has not been silent on this issue, nor has He changed His position.
We must begin speaking of our own sins, the sins we all tolerate in our own lives and too, the sins of our churches. We must repent of this double standard that sees the homosexual sin worse than adultery, premarital sex, and even pornography.
We have an OBLIGATION to maintain the biblical standards without wavering but also speak in loving ways of healing. This I think we have failed to do.
Homosexuality is wrong, adultery is wrong, stealing is wrong, coveting is wrong, not honoring your parents is wrong, taking the Lords name in vain is wrong...........these have always been wrong and they always will be.
My uncle is a homosexual. He knows I love him. I would die for him. Do I think he lives in sin. Yes. I did not make the rules God did. And as a Christian I am to live and think like Jesus. When we stand before Christ one day we will all be accountable, no excuse will do. Bottom line...Sin separates us from God. When people sin they willingly separate themselves from Him.
About judging.
Do you think telling a believer that their actions are not in line with what God would want is wrong?
We are not to judge hearts only actions. And as a Christian I have every right to call sin a sin. Paul in Corinthians says that we are not responsible for judging unbelievers, but WE ARE REQUIRED TO JUDGE OUR FELLOW BELIEVERS. Plain and simple.
We as Christian have every right to judge believers behavior and actions. We are not however responsible for the final evaluation of anyones character, including our own. (1 Corinthians 4:4)
God alone has this authority. We are responsible to judge conduct and relationships. We are not to base this on our feelings, or by the opinions of society or even by our own estimation of ourselves. We are to judge conduct and relationships by the CLEAR TEACHING AND STANDARDS REVEALED IN THE WORD OF GOD.
God says clearly, homosexuality is an abomination, and sin.
It is plain at least to me that God warns us against adultery, promiscuity, lusting, divorce and even the coveting of another man's wife. All of these commands are directed for the protection of the heterosexual monogamous relationship. No other type, of relationship is guarded by God as this one. If it is, please site the scriptures. The Lord never gives directives for a homosexual relationship (monogamous or otherwise). In fact he guards the heterosexual monogamous relationship from homosexuality.
If any of you can site scriptures where God says that a homosexual marriage is to blessed, please do, I would love to read them.
I think peoples problem is not with tolerance, but with Jesus' authority. They don’t want to be told what they are doing is wrong. And the person telling them, is called intolerant. The Christian is the one who is intolerant.
Show me any, ANY scripture in the Old or New Testament, where God talks about blessing same sex marriage or unions of any kind. Explain to me why he never mentioned gay love in Genesis? All marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman.
The fair reading of Leviticus proves that God calls homosexuality an abomination and these opinions can't be set aside. The New Testament speaks with even more clarity about homosexuality. There is strong condemnation of ALL sexual sin in the Bible, whether it’s homosexual OR heterosexual.
Why should churches remain silent on this issue and cave into political correctness? God didn't. He has not been silent on this issue, nor has He changed His position.
We must begin speaking of our own sins, the sins we all tolerate in our own lives and too, the sins of our churches. We must repent of this double standard that sees the homosexual sin worse than adultery, premarital sex, and even pornography.
We have an OBLIGATION to maintain the biblical standards without wavering but also speak in loving ways of healing. This I think we have failed to do.
Homosexuality is wrong, adultery is wrong, stealing is wrong, coveting is wrong, not honoring your parents is wrong, taking the Lords name in vain is wrong...........these have always been wrong and they always will be.
My uncle is a homosexual. He knows I love him. I would die for him. Do I think he lives in sin. Yes. I did not make the rules God did. And as a Christian I am to live and think like Jesus. When we stand before Christ one day we will all be accountable, no excuse will do. Bottom line...Sin separates us from God. When people sin they willingly separate themselves from Him.
About judging.
Do you think telling a believer that their actions are not in line with what God would want is wrong?
We are not to judge hearts only actions. And as a Christian I have every right to call sin a sin. Paul in Corinthians says that we are not responsible for judging unbelievers, but WE ARE REQUIRED TO JUDGE OUR FELLOW BELIEVERS. Plain and simple.
We as Christian have every right to judge believers behavior and actions. We are not however responsible for the final evaluation of anyones character, including our own. (1 Corinthians 4:4)
God alone has this authority. We are responsible to judge conduct and relationships. We are not to base this on our feelings, or by the opinions of society or even by our own estimation of ourselves. We are to judge conduct and relationships by the CLEAR TEACHING AND STANDARDS REVEALED IN THE WORD OF GOD.
God says clearly, homosexuality is an abomination, and sin.
It is plain at least to me that God warns us against adultery, promiscuity, lusting, divorce and even the coveting of another man's wife. All of these commands are directed for the protection of the heterosexual monogamous relationship. No other type, of relationship is guarded by God as this one. If it is, please site the scriptures. The Lord never gives directives for a homosexual relationship (monogamous or otherwise). In fact he guards the heterosexual monogamous relationship from homosexuality.
If any of you can site scriptures where God says that a homosexual marriage is to blessed, please do, I would love to read them.
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phoenixfire
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Post #365
In addition, there is a notion that all people (regardless of their religious/philosophical beliefs) should conform to some nebulous notionIn addition to this there is a notion that all people ( gay or not ) should
conform to some nebulous notion of christian values.
of 'tolerance' where no one is allowed to say anything that would offend anyone else.
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McCulloch
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Post #366
That is not the point. Many christians seem to want to prevent gays from marrying who do not subscribe to your christian scriptures. Do you belive that one specific religion should make the rules for people who are not part of it?azchurchmouse wrote:If any of you can site scriptures where God says that a homosexual marriage is to blessed, please do, I would love to read them.
Post #367
Leviticus...it's somewhat dated no?I believe most Christians stand on scripture the same scripture that has stood for over 2000 years, that says, homosexuality is an abomination.
If not...it's all good...chapter 3 says if the offending gay just picks a female
sheep and offers it in atonement, everything's fine.
Keep your meat and your dairy in separate fridges.
No blood sausage.
Only "clean" chickens....
Oh and no blended fabrics.
The selective use of Leviticus to justify intolerance could be called
many things, the least if which is dishonest.
Post #368
not to mention that Leviticus should not be read ignorant of the historical and cultural reality surrounding it. The scriptures in Leviticus, if you will read analytically are not about homosexuality, but about what one does with one's "seed." Let me explain: During the time Leviticus came about the Hebrews, fresh out of Bablyonian captivity were a dying society- that is, they needed rapid population growth to continue on. The myriad rules and regulations found in particular in Leviticus all deal with how one is to live under such circumstances- rules and regulations, given a moral foundation, were meant as ways to keep the Hebrews alive, not to condemn. Thus, to be homosexual was seen as unproductive to their situation- by making it wrong (as well as a host of other things) the proliferation of actions that would promote growth in a time of great need was ensured. One can see examples of this "religious mandate" throughout the Old Testament, and in other cultures as well. In the OT why was it bad to raise/eat pork? Because it was costly to raise pigs in that environment; far too costly and underproductive, not to mention impossible to move in a nomadic community. Pigs were seen as filthy, unclean, not because of the reality of the pig, but because of the reality of the Hebrews who needed to save every piece of money and use each resource to its fullest- pigs are not the answer; thus, religious mandate became a good way to guard against raising of pigs. In India, the cow is sacred. Other than its worth for purely religious reasons, the native peoples of India greatly relied on the value of the cow for its many uses- it was an integral part of life: cows provide milk, the dung provides fuel and adhesives, they can pull a cart, keep a hut warm, their hides can be made for clothing after they've fed the family for a week etc.. the religious mandate against killing cows is not because of the reality of the cow as deific, but because of the reality of the Hindus who use that cow for many basic necessities of life- killing a cow would be harmful, until it was used until its end.
Scripture has complex realities behind it which are too often ignored by those who would take scripture at face value and use it, rather than engage it and let it transform his/her understanding. The basis for intolerance to LGBT's is one such example of the Bible being misused due to ignorance.
Scripture has complex realities behind it which are too often ignored by those who would take scripture at face value and use it, rather than engage it and let it transform his/her understanding. The basis for intolerance to LGBT's is one such example of the Bible being misused due to ignorance.
Post #369
That doesn't make sense. Why would so many of the rules in Leviticus have death as their penalty if they were intended to grow the population?palmera wrote:not to mention that Leviticus should not be read ignorant of the historical and cultural reality surrounding it. The scriptures in Leviticus, if you will read analytically are not about homosexuality, but about what one does with one's "seed." Let me explain: During the time Leviticus came about the Hebrews, fresh out of Bablyonian captivity were a dying society- that is, they needed rapid population growth to continue on. The myriad rules and regulations found in particular in Leviticus all deal with how one is to live under such circumstances- rules and regulations, given a moral foundation, were meant as ways to keep the Hebrews alive, not to condemn.
examples:
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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juliod
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Post #370
This is the key point. This selective use of Leviticus shows that christian homophobes hate homosexuals first and are christians second. They'd convert to Islam before they'd give up their homophobia.Keep your meat and your dairy in separate fridges.
No blood sausage.
Only "clean" chickens....
Oh and no blended fabrics.
Here's an idea: Show homosexual complete tolerance and let them have all their demands. Then, if you think god is angry at you for that, pray for forgiveness. Would that work?
DanZ
