Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

[perfessor]

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.

[micatala]

My mistake. I forgot the candidate with the licentious history withdrew. I think Alan Keyes took his place.

At any rate, it was a real possibility there for a while.

So, I'll repeat and rephrase the question. If I am understanding Al correctly, we should never ever vote for Democrats if we are Christians.

How should we vote, then?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

That is why they keep them closed.

Have you ever considered the possibility that YOU might in fact be the closed minded one here?


Awful arrogant of you to portray your opinions on Democrats as biblical fact. Because as you see, I have yet to find a verse stating "thou shalt not be liberal".


But really, just lay off. Democrats, just like Republicans, are convinced that their way is the most beneficial for our country. The motives on both sides, are for the most part good. Just go about your way, and let liberals go theirs. Politics and religion are in fact subjective, rather than objective as you suggest. Opinions differ. All people, no matter what their pursuasion, deserve equal respect.

[AlAyeti]

Democrats revile "evangelical" Christians.

I will not lay off them until they treat my culture with civility. I am neither an evangelist or a martyr. I'm a voter and have the right to vote my conscience.

Just because they don't want to be challenged on issues is too bad.

The comparison of dropping the bomb on Japanese during WWII is a very shallow one. Where is your voice of outcry against for the country that supported the wholesale slaughter of millions and millions of human beings. The Japanese were completely cruel. They beheaded and tortured and raped their way across a war!

Where is your voice of outrage that Democrats champion third trimester abortions side by side with with the other forms of torture and death that unborn humans have to endure at the hands of the 99% of women who just don't want children BECAUSE of THEIR licentious behavior?

I know many women who have had abortions. None were raped or were the victims of incest. None.

Abortion is for convenience and it is murder. Until that crime is wiped away from this land NO Christian or any other fine person can be quiet and a partner to those that promote it.

Homosexuality has always been Pederast driven. Any adult knows that. Keeping people poor with programs that do not encourage self sufficient behavior is anti-decency.

Democrats are liars by their actions.

Republicans are honest by their actions. They say one thing and do it.

Democrats say they are good guys and don't do anything good, but take money from honest people to keep their Marxist agenda fueled and humming along.

Please look into Section Eight housing for a perfect example.

Permissiveness should not mean the same thing as diversity. But to a Democrat, so politically poisoned by Liberal-Progressive socialistic totalitarianism, it does. And the prisons and juvenile halls and out of home placements and psychiatric hospitals (and morgues) are filled with the children who are the victims of this permissive ideology.

How can any Christian, praying to a real God follow a Democrat anymore?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Democrats say they are good guys and don't do anything good, but take money from honest people to keep their Marxist agenda fueled and humming along.

Democrats are liars by their actions.

Will you stop overgeneralizing so that we can perhaps carry on a halfway reasonable conversation here? Is that so much to ask? I find it hard to take you seriously when you continuously spout extreme inane comments such as the first one I quoted.

Fact is, all Democrats are not liars. All Republicans are not honest. Each party has an equal share of power-hungry scum.

Abortion is for convenience and it is murder. Until that crime is wiped away from this land NO Christian or any other fine person can be quiet and a partner to those that promote it.

Once again, your opinion is not fact. Perception of what constitutes murder is solely subjective. I am a Christian and am pro-choice. It is not your place to tell me what I, as a Christian, must promote.

How can I possibly support abortion and call myself a Christian you may ask? I look at the worldwide distribution of resources. The world as it is now is overpopulated, in that we are running out of resources to satisfy everyone's needs. What if forcing unwanted babies into the world means more starving children in Africa?

That of course, is not my only reason. I also go back to what I said before, how we cannot force Christian views on the unbelieving public and make them law. I think we should leave it to the woman to decide what is right.

Homosexuality has always been Pederast driven. Any adult knows that. Keeping people poor with programs that do not encourage self sufficient behavior is anti-decency.

No, forcing people to comply to your view of sexual relation is anti-decency. Blatantly denying a group of people the same rights under law is anti-decency. I believe these convictions are supported in the Bible by the actions of Jesus himself.

Look, I don't agree with homosexuality. But by my consience I simply cannot bring myself to petition an undemocratic bill that would deny the human right of choice. Gays may pay for their actions in the afterlife, but here, we have no juristiction to tell them how to sexually orienate themselves. Absolutely nothing in the Bible tells us to do any such thing.

Republicans are honest by their actions. They say one thing and do it.

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same party here?

"How can any Christian, praying to a real God follow a Democrat anymore" you ask? Apparently the same way they can follow Republicans. By completely disregarding the teachings of Jesus Christ.

With this, I will refer you back to my previous tyrade against Repubs. I am not a Democrat, I will make that clear right now. But if given a choice solely between the two main parties (no choice of a third-party candidate), as a God-fearing Christian, I would vote Democrat. None of your unreasonable generalizations and proclamations of so called evil and corruption will convince me otherwise. Sorry, I only respond to sane argument.

[MagusYanam]

Abortion is for convenience and it is murder. Until that crime is wiped away from this land NO Christian or any other fine person can be quiet and a partner to those that promote it.

I have yet to see the Democrat who promotes abortion. It's not in their platform, and actually there are quite a few pro-life Democrats (take note of Dennis Kucinich's platform).

I don't like abortion at all, but I think that in our society, trying to outlaw it would be like trying to outlaw smoking. Smoking is for convenience and it is reckless endangerment of public safety and health, but if we outlawed smoking, smokers would still continue to smoke and the tobacco companies would be forced underground. Cigarettes would no longer become a 'safe' product, and more people would die sooner because of it.

We already tried something like this. It was called the Prohibition, and it didn't work too well, as I recall.

Keeping people poor with programs that do not encourage self sufficient behavior is anti-decency.

If you're talking about welfare, let's talk about what welfare actually means here. Most people on welfare actually do work, but their jobs don't allow them self-sufficiency; minimum wage cannot put a roof over a person's head and food in his or her stomach - same with welfare checks. Our current welfare programmes are designed to make up the difference, not to make the poor completely dependent on it.

I'd like to see conservatives do as much. Actually, what I'd like to see is major companies be required by law to train their workers in multiple labour skills, so that when they need to lay people off, those people have some other way of working.

The proposed 'welfare reform' programmes the conservatives have put on the table are unsatisfactory, because even the welfare recipients who don't or can't work are not addressed. If unemployed welfare recipients could be somehow educated in a labour skill, that would be better, but it requires that we put more money into welfare and education as opposed to, say, the military.

Republicans are honest by their actions. They say one thing and do it.

Or rather, they do one thing and then lie repeatedly about why they did it. When the WMD excuse failed, the Bush Admin. shifted to supporting 'democracy' in Iraq. But that obviously isn't what it was really about - no real conservative would waste billions of dollars on this kind of project. This was about asserting U.S. interests in the region, particularly interests conducive to the service and automotive sectors of the economy.

Or, better yet, they do something and then deny they ever did it. Remember Enron? The CEO was a die-hard Repub.

Democratic administrations like Clinton's at least try to think through their actions first. When Clinton went to war, he went with backing and he went on a limited scale so our economy wouldn't be shot through like it is now.

I'm not saying Democratic politicians are honest any more than Republican politicians are. It's just that my views as a mainline Christian are more in line with your average Democrat's than with your average Republican's, so I'm sticking with my party.

[AlAyeti]

The Persnickety Platypus: "How can I possibly support abortion and call myself a Christian you may ask? I look at the worldwide distribution of resources. The world as it is now is overpopulated, in that we are running out of resources to satisfy everyone's needs. What if forcing unwanted babies into the world means more starving children in Africa?

That of course, is not my only reason. I also go back to what I said before, how we cannot force Christian views on the unbelieving public and make them law. I think we should leave it to the woman to decide what is right."

///

I will judge that "position." Murdering childrenn to make room for the people who are outside of the womb for convenience sake, is authorized and accepted.

May God help see the horror of that position. Countries that are Atheists and Secular and Islamic, slaughter children and have many nod in agreemennt. In fact atheists-communists have killed more people than any other ideology in the history of the world.

I'm wrong how?

I read and reread the above statement. Jesus is very threatening to ANYONE that harms a child. Read the Gospels.

For example, Pederasty is what homosexuality was called before it was renemed by psychiatry. Literally raping and indoctrinating children into same-sex relationships. You nod in agreement with that as well. And we see the wholesale enslevement for sexual pleasure of children in Eastern European and other anti-Biblical countries.

I am not the kind of Christian that believes in killing children or sexualizing them.

[AlAyeti]

MagusYanam,

I don't disagree with much of your position, except that abortion is promoted by Democrats. It is anti-Christian absolutely. NOW, if a woman is going to die from a pregnancy, THEN, she should have every right in the world to be able to decide what to do. That is between her, and her doctor.

That is not what democrats ARE promoting. And you do make it clear that it (abortion) is a convenience.

The relativism and hedonism promoted by our society and grasped far more firmly by Democrat-Liberals (Hollywood, New York?) is also the root cause of every abortion for convenience.

WWJD?

I am not a Republican because of their stance towards the poor and needy. I CAN NEVER be a Democrat becuase I would be yoking myself to the kinds of people mentioned in the first chapter of Romans. It is not hard to understand the position of God "giving them up to their degrading passions" when you see the Democrat platform and the people that fuel it. Just watch one same-sex marriage segment on the news. Man, the Bible is never worng.

The Pastors of every real church should be in jail in no time soon. A quiet Christian leader is a complicit one to the anti-God sexual licentiousness that is the heart of the Democrat left. And the Democrat Left owns the party. Become a member of MoveOn.org and see for yourself.

Ever wondered why sexual miscreants use the rainbow as their standard?

Read about the days of Noah for the answer.

Nyah, nah, nah, nah-nah.

It has to do with a promise God made.

Is it being waived in His face?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I will judge that "position." Murdering childrenn to make room for the people who are outside of the womb for convenience sake, is authorized and accepted.

Convenience sake? No. For sake of humanity. This planet lacks the resources to support the current six billion, much less the number that will climb to in a few decades. We must start implenting population control plans, lest we are faced with a mass die-out in the years to come. Such a die-out would wield unimaginable suffering, and possibly the entire eratication of the human race. Look at the diminishing resources. Toxics in the atmosphere. Rising global temperatures. All of this will increase ten-fold as the population rises higher still. That leaves not only a near uninhabitable atmosphere for us, but for most every other organism as well.

And look. No one is doing anything about it. No one cares. If we don't draw the line at unformed groups of cells that *no one* including the mother even wants, where will we ever draw the line? My concern takes priority in humanity as a whole, rather than these little cell groupings which personally, I would not call human beings, and would not therefore equate to such an act as murder.

Your concern for life is noble, but misplaced concern in my opinion.



But on another note, I must ask you: Is it really relevant what God wants in a political situation such as this? Do you think we should force others to comply with our views? Because this in and of itself goes against many biblical teachings.

I have read and re-read the Bible multiple times. I consider my position to be in-line with Jesus' teachings.

[youngborean]

Convenience sake? No. For sake of humanity.

Isn't this taking it a little far. The fact that abortion is considered an acceptable "population control plan" is part of the degredation of our society in my mind. I'm all for noting potential population issues, but to imply that the people who choose this as a method of birth control for the good of the world only is trying to make irresponsibility seem noble.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Such irresponsibility on the womans part is certainly not noble. I just feel that a line must be drawn somewhere, in respect of future generations. I don't mean to suggest that only fertilized fetuses should be stopped from entering the world. Other measures that prevent contraception in the first place should be taken as well, as is being done in many other countries, such as China. Population growth is one of the most neglected problems currently plaquing our world, IMO. Overpopulation is the stem of virtually all environmental problems that threaten our species. Solve this problem, and the other problems pretty much solve themselves.

I really shouldn't have even brought it up as an issue. Population control on it's own is a grisly reason to not condemn abortion, I know. I did not mean to suggest that in my last post. I have other reasons, trust me. I do not equate the killing of unfertilized eggs to murdering children.