Obama Violating Separation of Church and State?

[East of Eden]

Obama recently attempted to get Pastors to use their pulpit to convince their congregations to go along with the his Health Care Program. He accused the opposition of violating the 9th commandment. He spoke of our obligation to be our brother's keeper.

Shouldn't those of you who oppose Christians trying to get their Biblical views enacted into law in regards to abortion, gay marriage, etc. be equally concerned about this?

It would be nice if Obama would be his own brother's keeper, who last time I checked was still living on $5 a month in Kenya. Perhaps while on vacation at that $20,000,000+ Martha's Vinyard retreat he'll have time to reflect on that.

[JoeyKnothead]

Obama recently attempted to get Pastors to use their pulpit to convince their congregations to go along with the his Health Care Program. He accused the opposition of violating the 9th commandment. He spoke of our obligation to be our brother's keeper.

Shouldn't those of you who oppose Christians trying to get their Biblical views enacted into law in regards to abortion, gay marriage, etc. be equally concerned about this?

It would be nice if Obama would be his own brother's keeper, who last time I checked was still living on $5 a month in Kenya. Perhaps while on vacation at that $20,000,000+ Martha's Vinyard retreat he'll have time to reflect on that.

I would agree that politics should not be preached from tax exempt institutions.

About the brother's keeper deal, I can only conclude Obama has his reasons, just as I have one of my brothers I consider dead to me.

What does the value of a retreat have to do with anything?

[East of Eden]

Obama recently attempted to get Pastors to use their pulpit to convince their congregations to go along with the his Health Care Program. He accused the opposition of violating the 9th commandment. He spoke of our obligation to be our brother's keeper.

Shouldn't those of you who oppose Christians trying to get their Biblical views enacted into law in regards to abortion, gay marriage, etc. be equally concerned about this?

It would be nice if Obama would be his own brother's keeper, who last time I checked was still living on $5 a month in Kenya. Perhaps while on vacation at that $20,000,000+ Martha's Vinyard retreat he'll have time to reflect on that.

I would agree that politics should not be preached from tax exempt institutions.

About the brother's keeper deal, I can only conclude Obama has his reasons, just as I have one of my brothers I consider dead to me.

What does the value of a retreat have to do with anything?

It indicates Obama's hypocrisy in not helping his own brother is not due to a lack of resources.

[GentleDove]

Obama recently attempted to get Pastors to use their pulpit to convince their congregations to go along with the his Health Care Program. He accused the opposition of violating the 9th commandment. He spoke of our obligation to be our brother's keeper.

Obama is wrong"health care is not the civil governments jurisdiction. The civil government is not our brother"unless its Big Brother?

In addition, look at the history of civil government involvement with health care; every time they pass some health care act, the prices for medical care rise, while the service goes down (government-required HMOs, government-required insurance plans, etc.). I doubt people really want medical care facilities to be run like the Post Office or the DMV.

Of course, families should pay for their own health and sickness care, through savings, insurance, or cost-sharing plans, and if they cant then the church and/or church-run charities should care for the sick/pay for care. Thats what being our brothers keeper means, not participating in Obamas attempt at socialist-fascism. If pastors should be urging anything from the pulpit, it should be urging their congregations and other churches to form health care alliances, home health care, and voluntary cost-sharing plans"and preach the rejection of socialism and fascist, government-run "businesses."

If refusing to be in the pocket of fascist dictators means giving up tax-exempt status"so be it. Then preach Biblical politics to the people"and get those oppressive tax laws repealed. Let Christians put their money toward actually helping people through private enterprise and voluntary charity for the sake of the gospel, instead of civil government-run money pits that never deliver the goods.

By idolizing the state, Obama is breaking the 1st commandment. And he seems overly interested in aborting the unborn and "euthanizing" the elderly in violation of the 6th commandment. With his socialist Health Care solution (and other socialist programs) he is in violation of the 8th commandment.

[JoeyKnothead]

Obama recently attempted to get Pastors to use their pulpit to convince their congregations to go along with the his Health Care Program. He accused the opposition of violating the 9th commandment. He spoke of our obligation to be our brother's keeper.

Shouldn't those of you who oppose Christians trying to get their Biblical views enacted into law in regards to abortion, gay marriage, etc. be equally concerned about this?

It would be nice if Obama would be his own brother's keeper, who last time I checked was still living on $5 a month in Kenya. Perhaps while on vacation at that $20,000,000+ Martha's Vinyard retreat he'll have time to reflect on that.

I would agree that politics should not be preached from tax exempt institutions.

About the brother's keeper deal, I can only conclude Obama has his reasons, just as I have one of my brothers I consider dead to me.

What does the value of a retreat have to do with anything?

It indicates Obama's hypocrisy in not helping his own brother is not due to a lack of resources.

Gotcha, and I agree it does seem hypocritical, whether he owns it or pays the huge rent one can reasonably assume he could spend his money in a more "giving" fashion.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 1 Post 4:

Obama is wrong"health care is not the civil governments jurisdiction. The civil government is not our brother"unless its Big Brother?

I propose government's jurisdiction is what we the folks allow. In this case I contend decent medical care should be a right for all.

In addition, look at the history of civil government involvement with health care; every time they pass some health care act, the prices for medical care rise, while the service goes down (government-required HMOs, government-required insurance plans, etc.). I doubt people really want medical care facilities to be run like the Post Office or the DMV.

I think it's more about insuring folks, and not so much running hospitals.

Of course, families should pay for their own health and sickness care, through savings, insurance, or cost-sharing plans, and if they cant then the church and/or church-run charities should care for the sick/pay for care.

Unfortunately not enough churches are offering enough folks this care.

I do agree it would be great if this would occur - as long as folks were not unduly burdened with proselytizing.

If refusing to be in the pocket of fascist dictators means giving up tax-exempt status"so be it.

Hyperbole has no place in reasoned debate.

No one is proposing we all put on swastikas.

Let Christians put their money toward actually helping people through private enterprise and voluntary charity for the sake of the gospel, instead of civil government-run money pits that never deliver the goods.

Funny, that's what I think of organized religion.

By idolizing the state, Obama is breaking the 1st commandment.

If only someone could offer verifiable evidence their proposed God is a jealous god, fearful of all other gods.

And he seems overly interested in aborting the unborn and "euthanizing" the elderly in violation of the 6th commandment.

LOL The "death panel" myth lives.

With his socialist Health Care solution (and other socialist programs) he is in violation of the 8th commandment.

If only someone could offer verifiable evidence their proposed God doesn't like idols, or likes folks to keep days "holy", whichever.

[East of Eden]

LOL The "death panel" myth lives.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/ ... _bill.html

Whatever you think about Obama's proposal, we don't have the $1,000,000,000,000 for it. Medicare has actually cost 10 times more than originally predicted. There is no reason to think that wouldn't happen to Obama's proposal.

Medicare is already paying out more than it takes in, Social Security will do so soon. Shouldn't we fix those first?

[JoeyKnothead]

LOL The "death panel" myth lives.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/ ... _bill.html

Whatever you think about Obama's proposal, we don't have the $1,000,000,000,000 for it. Medicare has actually cost 10 times more than originally predicted. There is no reason to think that wouldn't happen to Obama's proposal.

Medicare is already paying out more than it takes in, Social Security will do so soon. Shouldn't we fix those first?

Now dangit, we were finally agreeing on something

I consider the right of universal health care to be separate from what Medicare and Social Security are doing.

If we're gonna make these kinds of comparisons then I've gotta mention the relatively terrific care our soldiers and soldiers' families receive.

Of course there is always room for improvement in any system. My contention here is there is room for improvement in a system that leaves so many without decent medical care.

[East of Eden]

Now dangit, we were finally agreeing on something

I consider the right of universal health care

Can I ask, where is this 'right' found in the Constitution?

to be separate from what Medicare and Social Security are doing.

If we're gonna make these kinds of comparisons then I've gotta mention the relatively terrific care our soldiers and soldiers' families receive.

I think that's different, as we are knowingly sending them into harm's way where
they are likely to be injured.

Of course there is always room for improvement in any system. My contention here is there is room for improvement in a system that leaves so many without decent medical care.

There is a lot of room for improvement, why doesn't Obama ever mention tort reform? I read that 20-25% of medical tests ordered by doctors are not for medical reasons but because of fear of lawsuits.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 1 Post 9"

I consider the right of universal health care...

Can I ask, where is this 'right' found in the Constitution?

I've never thought we should be bound by ancient documents. I consider this 'right' to be an extension of a society that prides itself on its people.

If we're gonna make these kinds of comparisons then I've gotta mention the relatively terrific care our soldiers and soldiers' families receive.

I think that's different, as we are knowingly sending them into harm's way where
they are likely to be injured.

My point was to show a government program with a high level of success.

There is a lot of room for improvement, why doesn't Obama ever mention tort reform? I read that 20-25% of medical tests ordered by doctors are not for medical reasons but because of fear of lawsuits.

Then include these concerns with universal healthcare, but don't toss one great notion because another notion hasn't turned out the way one likes.