The abortion issue

[jgh7]

This is my first time adding a poll, so hopefully it works

I notice that the issue of gay marriage is a hot topic on these forums, but people tend to skirt around abortion... Gee, I wonder why? Here's a poll, please choose one of the options even if you feel that you're "special" to the point of where none of these options describes you. Please keep in mind, This has to do only with pregnancies that are not the result of rape, are not a danger to the mother's life, and with fetuses that will not have grossly severe deformities or disabilities. I have opinions about each of these special circumstances, but I would like this topic to be about the overwhelming majority of pregnancies which don't have these problems.

Obviously you can voice your stance as well, and feel free to talk about your opinions of how religion relates to all of this... or how it shouldn't. Here's mine:

For me, my strong views about abortion coincide highly with my religious views, but I developed them before I became religious. I view life as sacred from the moment of conception. I don't care if the zef (zygote/embryo/fetus) can think, I don't care how he looks, I don't care if the mother-to-be is a teenager or not, and I don't care about the impact on society. All I care about is the zef's life, and how I define life is not based off of cognitive abilities, development of vital organs, or ability to survive outside the womb. Life is about having a future on this earth. Many people say it's no big deal because there are so many early miscarriages that we don't even realize happen, but that is an awful reason to justify the purposeful destruction of life.

The main pro-choice argument is that the mother has a right to choose since it's her body. I strongly disagree. In the cases of voluntary sex, people know the risks; even when they use protection they know there's still a risk. Even if they don't know the risks, that still does not justify killing the zef because of their ignorance. Even in the worst case scenario, where the mother is a teenager and dirt poor, I strongly believe that abortion is wrong. Life is sacred to the point of where both parents ought to be willing to sacrifice their monetary well-being as well as their personal lives/time/aspirations for the sake of letting their child live.

My faith strengthens my stance, and I'm not ashamed to admit that the only way I could feel so strongly is through my faith. After all, with a non-theistic view it's pretty easy to view life as insignificant if it's a tiny spec that doesn't think and doesn't look anything like a baby. I understand many will be offended by this, but I've seen that this is the case for many non-theists.

The final argument that usually arises is: "Isn't using protection the same as abortion, since you're preventing sperm from entering the egg?" I believe we have the right to choose when we want to create life, but we don't have the right to choose to destroy that life once it has been created. I may not know the precise time down to the second, but somewhere during the moment of conception, life is created. A sperm will not grow into a baby, and neither will an egg; only a fertilized egg. All that is left after conception is less than a year of growing until the life is born. Using protection is no more abortion than is choosing not to have sex for a certain night. Both cases mean that sperm that could have fertilized an egg was prevented from doing so. But destroying a fertilized egg is abortion, because it is killing off a human life that is growing.

These are my views. I know there are many points where people can disagree, but abortion is one thing where I have a very strong stance on, since I believe it is killing. When people are lax on their stances and say things like, "It's only for mothers to decide," it usually means that they don't view the zef as a life.

[Cephus]

I don't know about murder, but I'll call it killing.

So what? A cow got killed so you could eat a hamburger. I don't hear you complaining about that.

[Cephus]

I will say though, that many pro-life theists bring up the commandment from the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, a.k.a. the bible, 'Thou shalt not kill', as a defense for their demanding that another bow to their choices about the others body.

Except the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not kill", the correct translation is "thou shalt not murder". Murder is defined as killing not permitted by law. Since abortion is legal, it is permitted by law and therefore cannot be considered murder.

It's a good thing the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not kill" or the Israelites in the OT who went around committing genocide at the command of God would be pretty darned guilty.

[micatala]

Today on NPR Terry Gross had a discussion with former religious right leader Frank Schaeffer. He describes himself as pro-life but has come to believe abortion should remain legal and voted for OBama in the last election.

See http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=97998654

Frank Schaeffer's parents, Francis and Edith, were best-selling authors who were instrumental in linking the evangelical community with the anti-abortion movement.

But after coming of age as an evangelist and helping to organize religious fundamentalists politically, Schaeffer had a crisis of faith: Though he is pro-life, he decided that abortion should remain legal.

Shortly after the presidential election, Schaeffer wrote an open letter on the Huffington Post explaining his views and urging President-elect Barack Obama to support programs that provide care for pregnant women and reduce the number of abortions. In the letter, Schaeffer disassociated himself from his former politics, writing, "The pro-life cause poisoned many of us who were part of it. Me included. It led to self-righteous hubris that extended to a general attitude of hate toward the 'other.'"

Schaeffer is the author of Crazy for God and Faith of Our Sons

[FinalEnigma]

The government has no place in the business of promoting or preventing abortion.
Laws should only be passed as they affect persons in a society.A fetus is not a member of society but only an organism, not a citizen. A fetus has no voice,no name, no social security number. No laws should be passed regarding organisms. Abortion is an issue for family and parent(s).

I must disagree here that no laws should be passed regarding organisms, as that would allow animal abuse since animals are organisms and not members of society.


With regard to the abortion issue, I feel that abortions should be legal and acceptable up until the point where the fetus can suffer. Fetuses develop a CNS at about the third trimester(I believe), and I feel that if a woman allows the fetus to grow 6 months, become capable of responding to stimuli(eg kicking as a result of actions by the mother) and posses a CNS and the ability to suffer, then an abortion is at the very least questionable if not morally wrong. Although if someone made a good enough case I might change my mind.

[Goat]

The government has no place in the business of promoting or preventing abortion.
Laws should only be passed as they affect persons in a society.A fetus is not a member of society but only an organism, not a citizen. A fetus has no voice,no name, no social security number. No laws should be passed regarding organisms. Abortion is an issue for family and parent(s).

I must disagree here that no laws should be passed regarding organisms, as that would allow animal abuse since animals are organisms and not members of society.


With regard to the abortion issue, I feel that abortions should be legal and acceptable up until the point where the fetus can suffer. Fetuses develop a CNS at about the third trimester(I believe), and I feel that if a woman allows the fetus to grow 6 months, become capable of responding to stimuli(eg kicking as a result of actions by the mother) and posses a CNS and the ability to suffer, then an abortion is at the very least questionable if not morally wrong. Although if someone made a good enough case I might change my mind.

I will agree with that, with this exception. If there is a specific medical reason that has to deal with the health of the woman.

[FinalEnigma]

The government has no place in the business of promoting or preventing abortion.
Laws should only be passed as they affect persons in a society.A fetus is not a member of society but only an organism, not a citizen. A fetus has no voice,no name, no social security number. No laws should be passed regarding organisms. Abortion is an issue for family and parent(s).

I must disagree here that no laws should be passed regarding organisms, as that would allow animal abuse since animals are organisms and not members of society.


With regard to the abortion issue, I feel that abortions should be legal and acceptable up until the point where the fetus can suffer. Fetuses develop a CNS at about the third trimester(I believe), and I feel that if a woman allows the fetus to grow 6 months, become capable of responding to stimuli(eg kicking as a result of actions by the mother) and posses a CNS and the ability to suffer, then an abortion is at the very least questionable if not morally wrong. Although if someone made a good enough case I might change my mind.

I will agree with that, with this exception. If there is a specific medical reason that has to deal with the health of the woman.

well that is a given, is it not?

[Goat]

The government has no place in the business of promoting or preventing abortion.
Laws should only be passed as they affect persons in a society.A fetus is not a member of society but only an organism, not a citizen. A fetus has no voice,no name, no social security number. No laws should be passed regarding organisms. Abortion is an issue for family and parent(s).

I must disagree here that no laws should be passed regarding organisms, as that would allow animal abuse since animals are organisms and not members of society.


With regard to the abortion issue, I feel that abortions should be legal and acceptable up until the point where the fetus can suffer. Fetuses develop a CNS at about the third trimester(I believe), and I feel that if a woman allows the fetus to grow 6 months, become capable of responding to stimuli(eg kicking as a result of actions by the mother) and posses a CNS and the ability to suffer, then an abortion is at the very least questionable if not morally wrong. Although if someone made a good enough case I might change my mind.

I will agree with that, with this exception. If there is a specific medical reason that has to deal with the health of the woman.

well that is a given, is it not?

Perhaps to you and me, but I have seen people proclaim there should be no abortions ever, no matter what circumstance.

[thecandy]

For me, my strong views about abortion coincide highly with my religious views, but I developed them before I became religious. I view life as sacred from the moment of conception. I don't care if the zef (zygote/embryo/fetus) can think, I don't care how he looks, I don't care if the mother-to-be is a teenager or not, and I don't care about the impact on society.



The main pro-choice argument is that the mother has a right to choose since it's her body. I strongly disagree. In the cases of voluntary sex, people know the risks; even when they use protection they know there's still a risk. Even if they don't know the risks, that still does not justify killing the zef because of their ignorance. Even in the worst case scenario, where the mother is a teenager and dirt poor, I strongly believe that abortion is wrong. Life is sacred to the point of where both parents ought to be willing to sacrifice their monetary well-being as well as their personal lives/time/aspirations for the sake of letting their child live.

My faith strengthens my stance, and I'm not ashamed to admit that the only way I could feel so strongly is through my faith. After all, with a non-theistic view it's pretty easy to view life as insignificant if it's a tiny spec that doesn't think and doesn't look anything like a baby. I understand many will be offended by this, but I've seen that this is the case for many non-theists.

b][/b]

Ok as someone who was in "the worst case scenario" I did'nt vote either. I dropped out of school and gave birth to my daughter aged 15 and at no time did I ever consider her an "insignificant spec" I did however spend many hours looking into the options available to me. There were many many personal reasons for choosing to give birth to and raise my daughter and one of the most significant of these was my large family and support network. Saying you don't care about whether the mother is a teenager or the impact this has on society is fine, but people like me do care, I care that mothers, be they teenage/single/etc with poor social skills and little or no support don't receive the help they often need and end up raising damaged children.
Although I support your right to your opinion I think parenthood is never how people think it will be. I believe it absolutely is the right of a woman to choose to abort a foetus and I also think there should be a way for a man to legally refuse any parental responsibilty of a foetus to ensure fairness. But I believe abortion is the wrong thing to do in the vast majority of cases and 24 weeks is too late. My opinion has nothing to do with my religious beliefs.

[msmcneal]

The poll is too vague and doesn't allow for a variety of responses that most Americans generally hold. Me, I'm a non-theist, and I'm pro-life philosophically, but I'm pro-choice politically. I think abortions should be allowed in the cases of harm to the mother or child, or in the cases of rape. However, abortion as a means of birth control just seems reckless.

The government has no place in the business of promoting or preventing abortion.
Laws should only be passed as they affect persons in a society.A fetus is not a member of society but only an organism, not a citizen. A fetus has no voice,no name, no social security number. No laws should be passed regarding organisms. Abortion is an issue for family and parent(s).

I must disagree here that no laws should be passed regarding organisms, as that would allow animal abuse since animals are organisms and not members of society.


With regard to the abortion issue, I feel that abortions should be legal and acceptable up until the point where the fetus can suffer. Fetuses develop a CNS at about the third trimester(I believe), and I feel that if a woman allows the fetus to grow 6 months, become capable of responding to stimuli(eg kicking as a result of actions by the mother) and posses a CNS and the ability to suffer, then an abortion is at the very least questionable if not morally wrong. Although if someone made a good enough case I might change my mind.

I will agree with that, with this exception. If there is a specific medical reason that has to deal with the health of the woman.

well that is a given, is it not?

Perhaps to you and me, but I have seen people proclaim there should be no abortions ever, no matter what circumstance.

I agree whole-heartedly.

[Jaysin]

Politically, I'm Pro-Choice

Personally, I'm indifferent

I'll never be faced with the decision, therefor, I'm indifferent. My personal views on the subject should have no bearing on whether or not a woman can choose what she can or cannot do with her own body.

Anti-Choicers have the OPINION that abortion is wrong. This is their OPINION and should not be forcibly subjected into others lives.