Should discrimination against gays be allowed?

[McCulloch]

Should landlords, employers, educators, government agencies and persons conducting business be allowed, by law, to discriminate against homosexual persons solely on the basis of the person's sexual orientation?

Should churches be allowed to discriminate against homosexual persons?

[Cephus]

I'm sure the fanatics would think that but it's irrelevant. We have a secular public society and whatever some religious nutcase believes doesn't make a bit of difference to me. You cannot force your religious views on the rest of the population, just because you are convinced that your religious views are right. End of story.

You have no argument here.

Yes but I think it's something that needs to be stressed to the religious. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe that your religious beliefs are correct, you do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others. The best you can do is live your own life by the precepts you have faith in and leave everyone else alone.

I only wish more people figured this out.

[lynxichan]

Why the attack on Christianity? Islam is anti-homosexual and anti-secularism.

True, however, Muslims aren't trying to force their religon on everyone in America. At least not as much as Christians are.

Christians don't fight back with violence, that's why.

Some do. I'm not saying they all do, but some do. And it's not just Christians. If you're gay, and you let people know it, and you live around where I do, then you shall receive excessive name-calling(which, according to everyone, you have no right to do anything about whatsoever) and rock-throwing(which the rock-throwers will always deny and do it again and again and again and never get it trouble for it). Not good. :([/quote]

[melikio]

Yes but I think it's something that needs to be stressed to the religious. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe that your religious beliefs are correct, you do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others. The best you can do is live your own life by the precepts you have faith in and leave everyone else alone.

I only wish more people figured this out.

Amen.

You are right on the money.

While I would not make it my goal to counter or oppose "Christianity" itself, I can understand the effects of ideas like those Al and other radical anti-gay folks spout AND respond according in my life to counter them.

And it's humorous, because all that countering amounts to, is being exactly what Jesus promoted with His very life. I have listended to the words of likely every Christian who has exhibited the qualities of LOVE listed in 1Cor13.

And while I have more gentle ways of saying the following in reality, this is what my heart is saying:

If you DO NOT PROVE that you love me, DO NOT try to talk to me about your religion or morals. I'm not some "brownie point" that your god told yu to come out and collect (by ANY means necessary).

So yes folks, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD, that the emphasis really should be placed upon how homosexual people are TREATED. People can say and believe what they want, but the kind of thing that happened to people like Mathew Shepard, should be DENOUNCED as loudly as anything else which deserves to be.

People who will not or cannot treat others with the kind of love Jesus commanded, are not pointing to the right things...not that they aren't seeking to be "Christian", but that they are human beings carrying their OWN set of grevious flaws; LOVE can overcome those, but pride, hatred, discord and other negative intentions must be set aside for a time. Those who LOVE, are truly serving God (as far as I can tell). Just because someone speaks the "words" of the Bible, or claims to be a "Christian", does not mean that the ONE who allows them to "overcome" is the one who sent them.

IF someone opens their mouth to say anything to me, and love isn't sensed, I'm tucking my tail and headed AWAY from them; no matter how "RIGHT" they think they are. I'm not seeking "conflict", and I don't see so much wrong with avoiding it either (if at all possible). I'm moved by the idea that Jesus RESTORED the ear of the soldier, that Peter cut off. And IF ANY HOMOSEXUAL is going to be changed, it will be a miracle like that one...not this INSANE HOUNDING of wounded human beings which is more like a SPORT than the spreading of the Gospel of Peace.

I didn't know how UGLY "Christianity" could be, until I found myself in the midst of those who would transform it into such a thing.

-Mel-

[lynxichan]

Yes but I think it's something that needs to be stressed to the religious. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe that your religious beliefs are correct, you do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others. The best you can do is live your own life by the precepts you have faith in and leave everyone else alone.

I only wish more people figured this out.

Amen.

You are right on the money.

While I would not make it my goal to counter or oppose "Christianity" itself, I can understand the effects of ideas like those Al and other radical anti-gay folks spout AND respond according in my life to counter them.

And it's humorous, because all that countering amounts to, is being exactly what Jesus promoted with His very life. I have listended to the words of likely every Christian who has exhibited the qualities of LOVE listed in 1Cor13.

And while I have more gentle ways of saying the following in reality, this is what my heart is saying:

If you DO NOT PROVE that you love me, DO NOT try to talk to me about your religion or morals. I'm not some "brownie point" that your god told yu to come out and collect (by ANY means necessary).

So yes folks, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD, that the emphasis really should be placed upon how homosexual people are TREATED. People can say and believe what they want, but the kind of thing that happened to people like Mathew Shepard, should be DENOUNCED as loudly as anything else which deserves to be.

People who will not or cannot treat others with the kind of love Jesus commanded, are not pointing to the right things...not that they aren't seeking to be "Christian", but that they are human beings carrying their OWN set of grevious flaws; LOVE can overcome those, but pride, hatred, discord and other negative intentions must be set aside for a time. Those who LOVE, are truly serving God (as far as I can tell). Just because someone speaks the "words" of the Bible, or claims to be a "Christian", does not mean that the ONE who allows them to "overcome" is the one who sent them.

IF someone opens their mouth to say anything to me, and love isn't sensed, I'm tucking my tail and headed AWAY from them; no matter how "RIGHT" they think they are. I'm not seeking "conflict", and I don't see so much wrong with avoiding it either (if at all possible). I'm moved by the idea that Jesus RESTORED the ear of the soldier, that Peter cut off. And IF ANY HOMOSEXUAL is going to be changed, it will be a miracle like that one...not this INSANE HOUNDING of wounded human beings which is more like a SPORT than the spreading of the Gospel of Peace.

I didn't know how UGLY "Christianity" could be, until I found myself in the midst of those who would transform it into such a thing.

-Mel-

I second that. :D

[Cathar1950]

Christians don't fight back with violence, that's why.

Maybe Anabaptist, Mennonites and Quakers do Not commit violence. Many others love a good "just war theory".
Muslims don't run around in this country bitching about gays. I f they did I would complain about them too. I think they got enough problems.
I see no reason for disrimination. Their civil rights should be protected like any one else. I believe any Chritian group that promotes discrimination should be taxed for every penny they spend of ads.

[Cephus]

Christians don't fight back with violence, that's why.

Maybe Anabaptist, Mennonites and Quakers do commit violence. Many others love a good "just war theory".

Of course Christians fight back with violence, what about all the murders of gays in the South, commited by good-old-boy Christians.

Muslims don't run around in this country bitching about gays. I f they did I would complain about them too. I think they got enough problems.

Muslims in the US don't seem to be vocally opposed to very much. If they believe something is wrong, they simply make sure they aren't doing it. They don't try to get legislation passed to prohibit it, they don't try to get Muslim religion taught in public school science classes, they don't demand that anyone they vote for be Muslim, etc.

[keltzkroz]

While this post of mine is not related to homosexuality, I just want to point out something.

The best you can do is live your own life by the precepts you have faith in and leave everyone else alone.

I only wish more people figured this out.

Actually, a lot of people (if not most) live like this. While there is nothing wrong with looking out for number one (at least in my view), its definitely unacceptable for me to be looking out only for number one. Leave everyone else alone? Do not harm others and do not help others? Is this acceptable? How about help only those who want help? Is this acceptable?

[keltzkroz]

Muslims in the US don't seem to be vocally opposed to very much. If they believe something is wrong, they simply make sure they aren't doing it. They don't try to get legislation passed to prohibit it, they don't try to get Muslim religion taught in public school science classes, they don't demand that anyone they vote for be Muslim, etc.

Muslims are a minority right now in the US. Who knows whats going to happen if someday (if ever) they become a majority. Luckily, there are not that many Muslim extremists in the US (I think). Anybody familiar with laws in predominantly Islamic countries (perhaps Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example) regarding homosexuals?

[palmera]

Of course Christians fight back with violence, what about all the murders of gays in the South, commited by good-old-boy Christians.

Cephus,
Woah woah woah, let's not get carried away here. I happen to be very partial of the South. With all of it's problems, violence against gays should not be relegated to a southern good ole-boy thing. It's a pan-american thing (not to mention other parts of the world) so cut us a little slack down here- most of us are trying very hard to change some of the more "backward" things about life in the south. Just look at Nashville- why they've erected a new and improved Parthenon to add a little culture to their small neck of the woods!

Melikio:

People who will not or cannot treat others with the kind of love Jesus commanded, are not pointing to the right things...not that they aren't seeking to be "Christian", but that they are human beings carrying their OWN set of grevious flaws

(bold mine)

right on target as always mel. This digs deep into the fundamental problem of how one interprets scripture, how one relates to and interprets the world, and most importantly, it speaks directly to the responsibility of the individual, to address those things she/he brings to the table- whether that be to a text, to a discussion etc... - in order to be open to revelatory change rather than a mouthpiece of one's own biases.

[Cathar1950]

I am in Michigan and we have our share of rednecks and Good old boys.
Give me a redneck girl!
Or any I suppose as long as she likes me a little and can put up with me.

I miss wrote this.
Maybe Anabaptist, Mennonites and Quakers do commit violence. Many others love a good "just war theory".
I meant
Maybe Anabaptist, Mennonites and Quakers do Not commit violence. Many others love a good "just war theory".
I will go change it.....sorry.