Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

Two hot topics for the price of one

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
perfessor
Scholar
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Illinois

Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

Post #1

Post by perfessor »

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.
So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

AlAyeti
Guru
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 pm

Post #31

Post by AlAyeti »

Sure seems New Testament to me.

But then again the government by the words of the Constitution can do nothing to any church tax-wise or not.

Seperation of church and state - though no where mentioned in the Constitution - means "seperate!"

No touching. Nada.

Leave it alone.

Etc, etc, etc.

Or in those immortal words:

Can't touch this. . . dah nah nah nah, nah nah, nah nah. . .can't touch this!

Dah nah nah nah, nah nah, nah nah . . .

User avatar
turtleguy
Student
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:29 pm
Location: georgia

Re: Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

Post #32

Post by turtleguy »

perfessor wrote:
I
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave... ...members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent.
i think they should loose their tax thing. that is crazy

User avatar
micatala
Site Supporter
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:04 pm

Post #33

Post by micatala »

AlAyeti wrote:That anybody can sit by and watch an entire culture being attacked every single day on every imaginable level is astounding to me. Christians are demanded to take what other religious people have entire defamation organizations to fight off their oppressors.
I hear a lot of whining by some Christians about this so-called 'persecution' or 'oppression'. I have to say I think it is a bunch of baloney.

Who is preventing Christians from gathering to worship on any kind of systematic basis?

Who is preventing Christians from expressing their views as citizens?

Do Christians suffer from violence, or legal sanctions simply because they are Christians? Note that this is different than a Christian suffering legal sanctions on the basis of their actions when said actions are illegal.

Private citizens expressing negative views about Christianity or your particular version of Christianity is not oppression.

AlAyeti
Guru
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 pm

Post #34

Post by AlAyeti »

I will respect the personal attack sanction of this message board.

The blood of believers flows as we write all over the world and their only crime is peaceful acceptance of Jesus Christ.

Claiming to be a Christian and not knowing what is happening to the church worldwide and in America may be a position of disquailfication from said stance of being a Christian.

In America children can be handed condoms with no parental notification but if a Bible were even offered to these same children the ACLU Gestapo known as Compliance Coordinators would act like the jack-booted thugs that they are.

Halloween is a major theme day in every school in America while "Christmas" is a word of intolerance.

Persecutions are a fact.

Christians don't fight back. They die not with hands clutching a trigger or detenator swith but with hands raised and empty.

It's just one mouse click away from proving that.

User avatar
Nyril
Scholar
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:21 pm

Post #35

Post by Nyril »

Persecutions are a fact.

Christians don't fight back. They die not with hands clutching a trigger or detenator swith but with hands raised and empty.

It's just one mouse click away from proving that.
Such as the Christians that threatened the lives of the judge and his family that ruled against them in the Shivo case? Or the Christians that bomb abortion clinics?

You seem to have a massive persecution complex.
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air...we need believing people."
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]

User avatar
Vladd44
Sage
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Climbing out of your Moms bedroom window.
Contact:

Post #36

Post by Vladd44 »

AlAyeti wrote:You're as "agnostic" as Saul of Tarsus.
heh

Not sure how to interpret that, but I assure you, I have no planned trip to Damascus, and I never plan on visiting Mars Hill to proclaim the identity of the Unknown God.
AlAyeti wrote:Hosea and Gomer? You stress forgiveness exactly the same way as the God of the Bible. Unending yet undeserved. Long-suffering and desiring the return of the unfaithful. Perfect place to find the description of the God I believe in.
While I do not share the belief of a god that I was raised with , it is that type of mentality that I was raised to view the world. It is better to forgive someone that doesnt deserve forgiveness, than to judge someone that is guilty of nothing more than an error that we are all capable of.

Hearing this:
John 13:35 wrote: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
More times than I can count, I think this ex pastor would have been better served to express some love for his congregation, rather than judge them and cast them aside.

TTYL.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.[GOD] ‑ 1 Cor 13:11
WinMX, BitTorrent and other p2p issues go to http://vladd44.com

AlAyeti
Guru
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 pm

Post #37

Post by AlAyeti »

Nyril,

That kind of a comeback would have you receiving an "F" in debate class.

What's next my mother's Army boots?

Funny thing is, is that your position is rooted in knowing what "real Christians" should be doing.

The irony can only escape a certain type of intellect.

Like I said a mouse click away is proof of the death suffered by Christians worldwide. In America it's more subtle. Our children are sucked into "lifestyles" that kill them just as effectively and just as dead but leave the perpetrator free to teach more college courses.

Your attempt to diagnose me is typical of the totalitarian religion known as Psychology and those that worship at its alter of bizaare relativism. Oddly, even Gore Vidal agrees with me (or I he) on that assertion. And Gore and I would never be friends.

AlAyeti
Guru
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 pm

Post #38

Post by AlAyeti »

Vladd,

I'm humbled again.

But, what about unequally yoked? There are other churches these Democrats can go to. As an example, I will never work with an abortion supporter if I know they hold that belief. Never.

And most importantly is the protection of children. In my opinion, Liberal-Progressives i.e., Democrats voting for Kerry, are a real threat to children. Christians above all else think about children as the number one most valuable person in the overall scheme of things.

A childhood where childhood can be lived is the soul of every "real" believer. Remember, I can judge if I can stand to be judged the same way as I judge others. To me and every Christian I know, and that is lots and lots, what Democrats do to children is pure personified evil. Jesse Jackson comes to mind. His fruit is fatherless children, crack addicts and gangsters. And he is a "Christian" Minister.

If I was a pastor, there would be few Democrat "Liberals" who could stand my sermons. But, since I am not a Republican either, the money, money, money, aspect of Republican political votes, wouldn't get off the hook either.

Jesus preached to thousands and had how many at the Cross?

User avatar
Nyril
Scholar
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:21 pm

Post #39

Post by Nyril »

Nyril,

That kind of a comeback would have you receiving an "F" in debate class.
Actually. I took half a year of debate, and half a year of advanced debate, and then spent a year on the debate team. I got an "A" in all of them. From what experience can you tell me that I would of gotten an "F"? Are you a teacher perhaps? Have you even taken a debating class?
Funny thing is, is that your position is rooted in knowing what "real Christians" should be doing.
So, what should a "real" christian® be doing?
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air...we need believing people."
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]

User avatar
micatala
Site Supporter
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:04 pm

Post #40

Post by micatala »

AlAyeti wrote:The blood of believers flows as we write all over the world and their only crime is peaceful acceptance of Jesus Christ.
Yes, I am certainly aware there are places where there is very real and brutal persecution of Christians; I am not denying this.

I am only saying that it is a mischaracterization to describe what occurs in this country as any kind of persecution or oppression.
Liberal-Progressives i.e., Democrats voting for Kerry, are a real threat to children. Christians above all else think about children as the number one most valuable person in the overall scheme of things.
It might be interesting to start another thread on which party is more of a threat or more of a benefit to children. Certainly many have made the case that the Republican's policies are bad for children and families, particularly poor children. We all have different perspectives on what constitutes a 'threat.' I don't particularly apply that word to a lot of what I see. I do think that we can and should weigh the relative merits of different policies. As one example, I think the refusal of Republican's to address the health care situation in this country is poor policy and is demonstrably bad for the poor in our society.
In America children can be handed condoms with no parental notification but if a Bible were even offered to these same children the ACLU Gestapo known as Compliance Coordinators would act like the jack-booted thugs that they are.

Halloween is a major theme day in every school in America while "Christmas" is a word of intolerance.

Persecutions are a fact.
As I said, these are NOT persecutions, not by any stretch of the imagination. The ACLU as jack-booted thugs? Come on. That's a completely ridiculous comparison.

Yes, the ACLU (like a lot of single-issue organizations) does tend to take the extreme end of a position. I suppose single-issue groups do this because they feel they have to pull as hard as they can in their particular direction to get some incremental movement that way. I personally think the ultimate effect is not good, and would prefer groups take reasonable approaches to problems.

THat being said, the ACLU utilizes the same legal system we all have access to. They argue their cases on principle and legal precedent, and they usually have at least some grounds for the positions they take.

Who has ever said that Christmas is a word of intolerance? The legal cases I am aware of involve the contention that Christmas events or displays as part of an officially government sponsored event or in a government facility violate the Establishment Clause of the constitution. How is this persecution of a private citizens ability to worship as they see fit? It isn't.

Many Christians feel that our government SHOULD endorse Christianity and Christian beliefs. In my view, this is against the constitution. People who oppose giving official government sanction to a religious belief are NOT persecuting those of that belief. They are simply defending the constitution, as they see it, and trying to preserve their rights not to be subject to religious authorities that they do not subscribe to.

To say this is persecution would be like saying I am persecuting my neighbor by calling the cops because he is having a wild all night party with the music turned all the way up and people using my back yard as a garbage dump.

Post Reply