The armed Christian

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Pastor4Jesus
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The armed Christian

Post #1

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

DISCLAIMER; THIS THREAD ADDRESSES THE HIGHLY RADICALIZED AND MILITRIZED ISLAMIC TERRORIST. I DENOUNCE ALL TERRORIST ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING THOSE THAT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN. I HAVE NO BIAS AGAINST ANY RELIGION OR ATHEIST BELIEFS. I PERSONALLY LOVE MY PEACEFUL MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS, AND PRAY THAT THEY PRACTICE THE RELIGION IN A NORMAL NON-RADICALIZED AND REJECT THE RADICAL FALSE PROPHETS.



I think all Christians should be armed where legal and if its not legal those Christians should diligently work to change policy to make it legal. I would suggest that all Christians have several weapons which would include a battle rifle and a pistol then a back up of each with at least a thousand rounds of ammo for each. Also provisions should be stored for a month or more.

Why do I say this? Self defense. There is a radical element in Islam that is intent of destroying the United States, Israel, and what she stands for (the perceived Christian West and values). Of course I am speaking of the highly radicalized/Militized Muslim element. With lets talk about it Obama in office I predict a major terrorist attack on the USA or the west before he leaves office.

As the Islamic terrorists demonstrated they would use any weapon from a box cutter to a AK-47 to explosives to airliners filled with fuel to kill citizens of the west. Their MO in areas where they have free reign is to support coups and takeovers. Considering those facts, I don't think its too conspiracy theorist extreme to envision well funded terrorists attempting to take over a small town or part of a city. Maybe if the terrorists know that a particular group of citizens may be heavily armed, maybe they will pick on someone else. Going armed would send a message to radical Islam and more importantly if all Christians would go armed it would serve a practical purpose if terrorists decide to make an example out of your town.

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P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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Post #31

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

McCulloch wrote:
Pastor4Jesus wrote:of course that's what most anti gun people are so damn ignorant of, (they think that banning guns would magically make the guns in the hands of criminals vanish)
McCulloch wrote:I really have to call you on this one. Please cite an example from someone in the anti gun movement who displays this kind of navet.
Pastor4Jesus wrote:Isn't it obvious? Why ban guns if it will not reduce gun crime?
There is a grand difference between reducing gun crime and magically make guns in the hands of criminals vanish. I believe that crime statistics bear out the claim that restricting gun ownership does reduce gun crime, even though it does not magically make the guns in the hands of criminals vanish.

Top ten countries for firearm homicide rate per capita Colombia, Paraguay, Guatemala, Zimbabwe, Mexico, Costa Rica, Belarus, Barbados, United States and Uruguay. Lowest ten countries for firearm homicide rate per capita Singapore, England & Wales, Chile, New Zealand, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Spain, Denmark,
Australia and Ireland.

Imagine two countries, both of which have populations of 250 million. Suppose 50,000 people in each of these countries are going to experience murderous impulses over the course of a year. One nation has a complete ban on guns. The other has universal gun ownership. Which nation will see the higher murder rate? Common sense would dictate that the nation with guns will realize its enhanced ability and feasibility to commit murder.
You can not compare other countries and other cultures with the USA.Try comparing apples with apples. NYC with the some of the strictest gun laws have the largest homicide rates. So your comparison reads like a bad joke. Try this instead ;

Will extremely harsh anti-gun and anti-crime laws be more effective than conventional laws? Figures for East and West Germany, the last before the Wall came down, reveal a unique "experiment." In 1945 a uniform population was split in two. After four decades of dictatorial rule, the homicide rate in the Communist East was 0.7, hardly lower than that in the free West, 1.0. But the suicide rate in the East was 25.8, much higher than 15.8 in the West. That is, even the harshest regime prevented few homicides, but at the cost of many suicides --- hardly a fair exchange. Overly severe laws may be counterproductive as well as oppressive.

"Myths tell us that nations with strict anti-gun laws have low rates of suicide and homicide, so the answer is easy --- pass more laws. And if the laws don't work, pass still more. Facts, on the other hand, may be disturbing. They rarely provide easy answers for complex problems." Read more at (BTW this article was written by an MD) :

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1tvxm/thep ... ge%201.htm

P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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Post #32

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:The armed Christian?
Authorities say a Cathlamet man wanted to spread religion in a Skamokawa taverns parkin>>>>Brevity Snip<<<<man.
#-o
Was the weapon legal? By law (a class X felony) he shouldn't even have the gun in a drink establishment at all. I suppose a law banning guns would stop the bullets too? Its irrational belief that a law banning guns would prevent this kind of stupidity. I could fill this page with articles where the weapon saved an individual.

P4JC
Point being the dude was handing out religious literature, and when confronted he pulled out his weapon.

The #-o stands.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Post #33

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

MagusYanam wrote: I don't see a complete collapse of the social order anytime soon, so I hope I don't have to use guns for anything other than recreation.
Lets try this again it seems you are only reading bits and pieces of my posts. I did not say that there was going to be a collapse of the social order, that is you thinking that you know what I am thinking and has little to no basis in fact. If you will go back and read all the posts in context I originally said a major problem is about as unlikely as winning the lottery. However a terror attack on the scale of 9/11 (which could of been much much worse) is possible.

Why? Because the USA and other authorities have already foiled several attacks in active planning. And our foes have promised more. Natural disasters are a fact of life, some of these disasters will be enough to disrupt normal day to day activities. So, as I said being prepared for a month to a year is just good common sense as well as being a responsible citizen.

This thread has broken down into three arguments really. One is the original threads intent. The other is gun laws pro and con. And lastly there is the pencil neck geek vs the redneck/hillbilly argument.

If this continues we should break it up into those subfourms.
.I agree with you that many of the people who helped were pro-gun, but whether or not they were pro-gun is not important.
Right, well we have agreement there, and that was just a guess, because most people in the south are pro gun it seems, nevertheless, you said that you would rather choose between two groups. I don't know where anyone said that one should hide in the woods and horde ammo but it was you that suggested it, maybe you were still angry. Anger is a good emotion it motivates people.
The fact that they functioned as a civil society is.
When did that happen? You mean weeks after the disaster? I will go so far to agree that there will be those that help and another will steal in a given opportunity. We don't have to worry about the good guys. God bless em! However just because some people were good guys did not diminish the fact that there were many armed bad guys that were using the disaster to take what they wanted. Maybe you missed the news reports of what happened during the disaster? Here is an example;

Perfect Storm of Lawlessness
New Orleans vicious looters arent the real face of the citys poor"their victims are.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_09_01_05ng.html
Survivalism is basically a radical denial of the possibility of civil society when the government finds itself incapable of addressing a crisis - and even a cursory inspection of American history shows how misguided that kind of viewpoint is.[/quoet]

Ha ha really? Again would think that you are totally naive as well as wrong.
Tocqueville very astutely pointed out the ways in which Americans band together to solve problems, through churches / other places of worship, clubs, associations, labour unions, NGO's, et cetera.
I own a church so I hope you are correct! You are up to a point, people will come together to help in some instances, but each circumstance is different. If things get really bad, its not going to be as nice as Katerina with the rape gangs and murderous looters running around at will. It can be much worse. In any case (again and again) what I said was that a major catastrophe was unlikely, but a minor disaster minor likely. Be prepared even your own government suggests having a kit ready for modest problems...
That's your opinion, and I didn't twist your words. Didn't you say this?
Yes did use the analogy to show that Jesus telling was telling his disciple that to fight then would of been suicide. If things are nice enough after a minor attack we will pull together. However if you and your family hasn't anything to contribute you will be a burden not a help. Depending on the severity of the disaster, the resources available determine the civility of the remaining people. I would rather have food and protection to share rather than an empty stomach.

P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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Post #34

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

joeyknuccione wrote:
Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:The armed Christian?
Authorities say a Cathlamet man wanted to spread religion in a Skamokawa taverns parkin>>>>Brevity Snip<<<<man.
#-o
Was the weapon legal? By law (a class X felony) he shouldn't even have the gun in a drink establishment at all. I suppose a law banning guns would stop the bullets too? Its irrational belief that a law banning guns would prevent this kind of stupidity. I could fill this page with articles where the weapon saved an individual.

P4JC
Point being the dude was handing out religious literature, and when confronted he pulled out his weapon.

The #-o stands.
Seems to me he is was not a good religious person! I mean I too can hand out anti gun literature then shoot someone. So I don't see the value of even mentioning the thing.

Additionally I was saying that all the gun laws in the world even those threatening life imprisonment does not stop a person using or possessing a gun. A much better idea would be to enforce the gun laws on the books and get rid of feel good judges who allow these people back on the streets.

P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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FinalEnigma
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Post #35

Post by FinalEnigma »

I oppose any new gun regulations. FYI we do have licenses requirements on machine guns and other weapons such as 20mm Gatling guns. Too bad I think everything should be legal and easily obtained. However I unlike my counterparts trust the citizen far more than the government.
I'm sorry, but there's no legitimate purpose for owning a 20mm gatling gun. normal, reasonable weapons such and handguns/rifles/shotguns/etc. are fine for self defense. There is no valid reason to need a gatling gun or a bazooka for self defense(you did say everything).

We've all heard news stories on people opening up on a school with a rifle, or handguns. I do not need to read a story about the dozens of dead that would result if a nutcase opened up on a school with a 50 cal from the back of his van, or decided to blast a church with a bazooka on sunday morning.
I've fired both of those. if those were commercially available(and you did say everything) we would see people using them for real killing sprees, rather than the 5 or so usually killed in shootings.
or what about claymore mines? I could walk right into a classroom at school, set it down in my backpack, walk out the door and blow up half the room, then pull my m4 with attached grenade launcher and run down the hall lobbing grenades into each room, and shooting anyone who tries to leave the rooms with the m4.

No, unrestricted weaponry for citizens is absurd.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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Post #36

Post by VermilionUK »

Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:
Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:The armed Christian?
Authorities say a Cathlamet man wanted to spread religion in a Skamokawa taverns parkin>>>>Brevity Snip<<<<man.
#-o
Was the weapon legal? By law (a class X felony) he shouldn't even have the gun in a drink establishment at all. I suppose a law banning guns would stop the bullets too? Its irrational belief that a law banning guns would prevent this kind of stupidity. I could fill this page with articles where the weapon saved an individual.

P4JC
Point being the dude was handing out religious literature, and when confronted he pulled out his weapon.

The #-o stands.


Seems to me he is was not a good religious person! I mean I too can hand out anti gun literature then shoot someone. So I don't see the value of even mentioning the thing.

Additionally I was saying that all the gun laws in the world even those threatening life imprisonment does not stop a person using or possessing a gun. A much better idea would be to enforce the gun laws on the books and get rid of feel good judges who allow these people back on the streets.

P4JC
You're right, gun laws cannot stop someone possessing a gun. It's like laws on drugs; cannabis is illegal - but there's 5 streets within a 2 minute walk from my house that I know I can buy some.

However, laws preventing guns can reduce the amount of guns. If guns were banned, there would have been less of a chance that that guy would of had a gun. There's no point saying "he was not a good religious person" - the crime has already been committed. If guns are legal, you'd buy one, if they're illegal - you'd probably not get one.

Although the mentality of some americans on guns is of the "if you want to ban them, come and take them" stance. Although I'm sure they'll be complaining when a relative is shot by some guy in the street. :roll:

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Post #37

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

FinalEnigma wrote:I'm sorry, but there's no legitimate purpose for owning a 20mm gatling gun. normal, reasonable weapons such and handguns/rifles/shotguns/etc. are fine for self defense. There is no valid reason to need a gatling gun or a bazooka for self defense(you did say everything).
Ha ha sez who? Why can you judge what I want to do? Why is your judgment legitimate or valid? I like to push the envelope, I know that sounded radical but its not really, and I believe its a legitimate request. I like to collect neat military goodies. (and they are a lot better investment in Gold). I mean look you can buy a Honda for less than 15K that does almost 200 mph. A 16 year old can ride one. The speed limit is what 75? that bike will do over twice the legal speed limit. Maybe fast bikes terrify me? I might want to ban any bike that has more than 15 hp or any car that has more than 75hp. We need to exercise self responsibility not have more laws forcing us to do what some authority thinks is good for us.
We've all heard news stories on people opening up on a school with a rifle, or handguns.
Yes I blame the parents of the kids and society that forces two parents to work creating latchkey kids that have little to no parent child interaction. I don't believe access to guns cause such atrocities. If the teachers had been armed in most cases I feel the carnage would of been much less.
I do not need to read a story about the dozens of dead that would result if a nutcase opened up on a school with a 50 cal from the back of his van, or decided to blast a church with a bazooka on sunday morning.
You see that is pure naive thinking. Lets say I wanted to inflict mass casualty in a church or school. I wouldn't use anything that would call attention to myself. Explosives are easy to make and use, Timothy McVeigh demonstrated how to do that. More deadly firearms and weapons shouldn't make any difference, especially if the perp wanted to remain anonymous.
I've fired both of those. if those were commercially available(and you did say everything) we would see people using them for real killing sprees, rather than the 5 or so usually killed in shootings.
I highly doubt that. I too am ex military. As I said you can pick up an issue of shot gun news get yourself a class III licenses and buy 20 mm cannon .50 cals etc. Heck 50 cal BMGs semi auto are obtainable over the counter and have been for years. How many have been used in the school and other mass killings? Zero except at WACO, where the branch dividans were massacred by FBI ATF types. They were fairly effective there, but even there the rifles and shotgun type weapons killed more people.
or what about claymore mines? I could walk right into a classroom at school, set it down in my backpack, walk out the door and blow up half the room, then pull my m4 with attached grenade launcher and run down the hall lobbing grenades into each room, and shooting anyone who tries to leave the rooms with the m4.
Claymores are simple explosive devices easily fabricated. If one really wanted to cause damage a huge multi ton truck bomb would be far more effective. There should be no survivors to run out. All that's needed there is a few sticks of Dynamite and some other easily obtainable available chemicals.
No, unrestricted weaponry for citizens is absurd.
They should be sold the same way other weapons are sold, maybe with a little better background check. You need to trust your fellow man more even if he is toting a M-60 around.

P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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Post #38

Post by Pastor4Jesus »

VermilionUK wrote:
Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:
Pastor4Jesus wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:The armed Christian?
Authorities say a Cathlamet man wanted to spread religion in a Skamokawa taverns parkin>>>>Brevity Snip<<<<man.
#-o
Was the weapon legal? By law (a class X felony) he shouldn't even have the gun in a drink establishment at all. I suppose a law banning guns would stop the bullets too? Its irrational belief that a law banning guns would prevent this kind of stupidity. I could fill this page with articles where the weapon saved an individual.

P4JC
Point being the dude was handing out religious literature, and when confronted he pulled out his weapon.

The #-o stands.


Seems to me he is was not a good religious person! I mean I too can hand out anti gun literature then shoot someone. So I don't see the value of even mentioning the thing.

Additionally I was saying that all the gun laws in the world even those threatening life imprisonment does not stop a person using or possessing a gun. A much better idea would be to enforce the gun laws on the books and get rid of feel good judges who allow these people back on the streets.

P4JC
You're right, gun laws cannot stop someone possessing a gun. It's like laws on drugs; cannabis is illegal - but there's 5 streets within a 2 minute walk from my house that I know I can buy some.

However, laws preventing guns can reduce the amount of guns. If guns were banned, there would have been less of a chance that that guy would of had a gun. There's no point saying "he was not a good religious person" - the crime has already been committed. If guns are legal, you'd buy one, if they're illegal - you'd probably not get one.

Although the mentality of some americans on guns is of the "if you want to ban them, come and take them" stance. Although I'm sure they'll be complaining when a relative is shot by some guy in the street. :roll:
I think your heart is in the right place. However I am not a law abiding citizen on every law. I happen to think that natural law supersedes positive law in some cases. I skirt those unjust laws when possible and break them when I have to. So even if Guns were banned I would most likely own them anyway.

I feel its my right to own guns.I have a right to personal liberty too, any law that too infringes on that law will be broken. I know that I am risking becoming a prisoner for those beliefs, and if that did happen I would consider myself a prisoner of conscience unless I resisted with deadly force or violence then I wouldn't qualify for a prisoner of conscience, but it wouldn't matter anyway I would probably be a martyr, or at least I would like to think I had the courage for that title. happily I don't feel that that will happen here in the USA, at least not in my life time.

P4JC
When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren''t really a scientist. You''re a biologist ! (Woo Hoo you go Barrow!)

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Post #39

Post by McCulloch »

Pastor4Jesus wrote:I feel its my right to own guns.
And you have the right to express your opinion.
Pastor4Jesus wrote:I have a right to personal liberty too, any law that too infringes on that law will be broken.
What is is that Paul taught about obeying civil governments? Remember that he would have being referring to the Roman tyranny. Do you agree or disagree with him?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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FinalEnigma
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Post #40

Post by FinalEnigma »

Here's where my problem comes up pastor. What legitimate need does a private citizen have for owning a bazooka? or a machine gun capable of literally sawing holes in a wall?

or since you said all weapons, what about a mk-19 grenade launcher? Those have a rate of fire upwards of 40-60 rounds per minute.

what are you going to do with that outside of trying to wage a war or terrorism? I'm not trying to fear monger, but if such a weapon was so easily available, it leads me to ponder what would happen if somebody decided to drive to campus and let loose on Ross hall - a large, many story building that probably has as many as 500 people occupying it during class hours - or perhaps my father's work building? it has 28 floors if I recall.

I have no desire to trust random strangers with artillery any more than I want to trust a guy to point a gun at my head and not shoot. I'd trust some to do it, but I don't trust easily.
There are some really nasty people out there.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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