Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

[perfessor]

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

You are simply allowing and celebrating sin to be OK. There is no other position you have on this. You have no justification Biblically, to hold your position of permissiveness of sexual sin.

Magnus' position seems entirely biblical from what I have read. In addition to the biblical justification he provided above, I have cited a number of verses in support of tolerance. I would be happy to re-hash my points, but I get the feeling that this is (and has been, all along) a complete waste of time. I truly hope I am wrong.

You have yet to give biblical evidence for your notion of forced compliance.

I would ask therefore, that you justify yourself before asking others likewise.

Magus, CANNOT find Biblical support for justifying permissiveness on the matter being discussed. That is defensible Biblically.

Great! I look forward to hearing your defense.

[AlAyeti]

Paul told a church to turn a sinner out and over to Satan.

There will be false teachers and false-believers within the church.

That advice comes from Jesus and is repeated in the New Testament. Some are easier to see then others. Democrats have become anti-Christian. Abortion for convenience and redefining marriage is just the most obvious. Communnist taxation the way that Democrats want it implemented is also very evil. The good people beinng forced to pay for horrors.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more." Of course, judging her as a sinner. Let us not forget.

I am not calling for any kind of violence or imprisonment for Liberals and their followers, but, within Christianity, shaking the dust off your shoes carries with it a solemn judgment. You cannot abide light and darkness in a Church without exposing it and hopefully getting those in the dark to repent.

Go back and study.

I for instance, do not agree with this war in Iraq, but siding with the left on this is seen as an agreement to get rid of Bush and all of the good he represents. I do not believe he lied to us. All of that B-S, comes from the people that hated him and his Christianity long before the Iraqi war.

I cannot yoke myself to unbelievers. It pains me to side with the GOP onn many things, but the children are protected from sexual deviance far vbetter from the Republicans than the Democrats that want them to use condoms.

In Canada, the Liberals lowered the age of sexual behavior to fourteen. In America, Liberals have made laws that children can have sex and abortions without parental notification.

I call that Pedohilia. I accuse the Democrats (Liberals) of supporting pedophilia. Now if they are not Christians so be it. They are just plain evil people. If they are followers of Christ, Jesus gives a direct threat to anyone that would harm children. I have seen great harm to children come directly from Liberal actions. Welfare and subsidies to the poor have kept them poor and morally corrupt without any Democrat voice trying to change things to a morally better place. How many unwed mothers are on welfare? The problem is women having unmarried sex. Hmm, now which party sees my statement as Un politically correct?

Let me help you. It is the Democrats. I would also quickly be labeled a racist for the complete silencing package.

Hopefully that is claer enough of why Democrat-Christians need to change, repent, or leave whatever church teachies truth.

[MagusYanam]

Paul told a church to turn a sinner out and over to Satan.

Yet the disciples dined with publicans and prostitutes. The Gospels take precedence over the Epistles, for they represent the true spirit of Christianity.

Abortion for convenience and redefining marriage is just the most obvious.

You know this line of argumentation is pointless and beaten to death. If your right foot cause you to stumble, cast it off.

Communnist taxation the way that Democrats want it implemented is also very evil.

And I'll bet you and Joe McCarthy would be great friends, were he still alive. It's not communism, it's called fiscal conservatism. You increase revenue and decrease spending, and you do that first by raising taxes. That money goes toward relieving the debt (which is what Clinton was doing).

Communism is a political system, not a fiscal policy.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more." Of course, judging her as a sinner.

Jesus was God and without sin. It is not for sinners to judge sinners - as Jesus himself said in the same tale, 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Let us not forget that, while we're at it.

In America, Liberals have made laws that children can have sex and abortions without parental notification.

I call that Pedohilia.

What was that saying again? Something about a pot and a kettle?Conservatives can have sex with 15-year-olds in Alabama and in Utah some Republicans still practise underage polygamy. Clean out your own house before barging into someone else's. (And, might I note, age of consent in almost every blue state is 18.)

Welfare and subsidies to the poor have kept them poor and morally corrupt without any Democrat voice trying to change things to a morally better place.

Look at Clinton's welfare policies again. What many liberals are doing right now as opposed to conservatives is trying to create some kind of welfare system that addresses the dignity of the poor (which includes making better choices). Conservatives seem to just want to cut the funding, and how does that change things to a morally better place?

[AlAyeti]

Paul told a church to turn a sinner out and over to Satan.

Yet the disciples dined with publicans and prostitutes. The Gospels take precedence over the Epistles, for they represent the true spirit of Christianity.

Abortion for convenience and redefining marriage is just the most obvious.

You know this line of argumentation is pointless and beaten to death. If your right foot cause you to stumble, cast it off.

Communnist taxation the way that Democrats want it implemented is also very evil.

And I'll bet you and Joe McCarthy would be great friends, were he still alive. It's not communism, it's called fiscal conservatism. You increase revenue and decrease spending, and you do that first by raising taxes. That money goes toward relieving the debt (which is what Clinton was doing).

Communism is a political system, not a fiscal policy.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more." Of course, judging her as a sinner.

Jesus was God and without sin. It is not for sinners to judge sinners - as Jesus himself said in the same tale, 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Let us not forget that, while we're at it.

In America, Liberals have made laws that children can have sex and abortions without parental notification.

I call that Pedohilia.

What was that saying again? Something about a pot and a kettle?Conservatives can have sex with 15-year-olds in Alabama and in Utah some Republicans still practise underage polygamy. Clean out your own house before barging into someone else's. (And, might I note, age of consent in almost every blue state is 18.)

Welfare and subsidies to the poor have kept them poor and morally corrupt without any Democrat voice trying to change things to a morally better place.

Look at Clinton's welfare policies again. What many liberals are doing right now as opposed to conservatives is trying to create some kind of welfare system that addresses the dignity of the poor (which includes making better choices). Conservatives seem to just want to cut the funding, and how does that change things to a morally better place?

And you forget to add . . . thos disciples converted those that would listen and accept the truth.

Liberals, I agree, are the foot that needs hacking off.

You might not want to appeal to the New Testament and especially the Gospels to find an ally for the Liberals of today.

You know exactly what communism is, and it is not fiscally conservative in honesty. Taxation is another matter all together. It is forcing good people in America to pay for evil. Communist oppose Christianity. All over the world. Even here in the US. Call the World Workers Party and ask.

Clinton is a poor example of a good role model for sexually promiscuous women. And of course their many fathered offspring. Clinton was craftier in his sexual tryst.

I appeal to you to search your position better.

Rememebr I quite honestly judged the worth of Conservative Republicans and found them guilty of much wrong. The Liberal Democrats are just worse. I am a freethinker.

[MagusYanam]

Clinton is a poor example of a good role model for sexually promiscuous women.

So he is, but so what? That is an ad hominem line of argumentation - Clinton's sexuality is not at issue, his support of welfare policies is. If you can't stay on topic, get off the thread.

It is forcing good people in America to pay for evil.

And what's evil about alleviating the national debt? God forbid we should show some fiscal responsibility. What's evil about funding schools or social security?

The World Workers' Party is not at issue here, either. The Democrats are. And whatever else they might be, the Democrats are not Communist.

Start reading your Niebuhr.

Liberals, I agree, are the foot that needs hacking off.

We're not the ones causing this country to stumble. Turn to the White House for some evidence of that.

[AlAyeti]

Magus,

Biblically you are wrong again. The country whose God is Lord profits. America, by the Liberals everyday, is demanding God leaves the public square. Our children are force-taught that we are just a new monkey. No challenge is legal or allowed to the insanity being forced on our children. Our society shows what animals do to other animals.

I am opposed to your views Biblically. I cannot fight them politically because liberals have won every war to silence the Christian voice. The ACLU has seen to that.

That is your camp.

I'm glad your family is whole. Why not champion that? As you seem to imply, good things have come from it.

[MagusYanam]

Our children are force-taught that we are just a new monkey.

Firstly, this is wrong even from an evolutionary standpoint. Human beings are human beings and we share a common ancestry with other primates. But we are not monkeys - we share a greater kinship with the great apes, as proven by examining our own genome. I took high school biology, so I know what I was and was not taught.

You can swim forever in the Sea of Knowledge and never get wet. The schools don't 'force-teach' anything.

Secondly, this kind of gripe belongs in the Science and Religion subforum.

Thirdly, from a Biblical standpoint, the temporal authority is separate and distinct from God's authority. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's. Secularism - it's Biblical. Get used to it.

All the same, I spoke as a Christian in the public schools I attended, and I was never dismissed or frowned upon because of it by my teachers or by the administration. Nor were the Muslims or Jews in my class. And I benefitted greatly from the exchange of ideas and perspectives. That's how I think it should stay - the administration should be officially secular and allow members of all religions to express their beliefs freely.

[AlAyeti]

Please tell me where that is happening? We are new monkeys genome-wise. semantics will not help you. I have learned that similarities of design are just that. A wheel on a auto is simialr to a wheel on a wagon. You openly declare that God is a bumbler designer. I oppose that view absolutely. The bible saying that God repented of making people shows the freedom we have in God. He is not a Puppet master.

How do you have a conversation with a Muslim on the Resurrection? Or perhaps the sacrifice of "Isaac" by Abraham? How do you speak to a practioner of judaism That God was a man in the Old Testament, or Tanakh if you will?

Someone is correct and someone is mistaken. I use the politically correctified words so you will stay seated.

Look up the meaning of lukewarm Christian. It's in Revelation. You'll have no problems with people you are exactly like. Diversity does not mean selling out the Lord and becoming the world. It means stannding firm against adversity.

If I would have told my Profesors that I was a "Born-Again Christian" when I was in college "back in the day," I would have been treated like they treat Born-Again Christians still. I was a coward then. Now I choose to test all things and hold fast to the Truth. I am now a freethinker, that doesn't think exactly the homogenized version of the typical "freethinker."

Or I would be in a Church that allowed everything. You know, a Liberal Church.

[MagusYanam]

You openly declare that God is a bumbler designer.

Oh, really? Why don't you prove it. Oh, wait, sorry - I forget. You don't have to prove anything. You think you're above the rules of this forum.

Evolution doesn't mean bumbler. Only someone with a weak faith and a small concept of God would declare something like that.

How do you have a conversation with a Muslim on the Resurrection? Or perhaps the sacrifice of "Isaac" by Abraham? How do you speak to a practioner of judaism That God was a man in the Old Testament, or Tanakh if you will?

Someone is correct and someone is mistaken. I use the politically correctified words so you will stay seated.

Look up the meaning of lukewarm Christian. It's in Revelation. You'll have no problems with people you are exactly like. Diversity does not mean selling out the Lord and becoming the world. It means stannding firm against adversity.

I don't see them as my adversaries; that doesn't mean I've sold out my faith, or that my faith is lukewarm. The desire to prove them wrong only proves the weakness of your faith that you can't get past the specifics.

Jesus died upon the cross; a Muslim would disagree. There's a conversation right there. If you were an honest Christian you would see that you have nothing to lose and a lot to gain from such a dialogue. The Muslim view of God is from a different angle; that doesn't mean it's wrong. And there's more to Islam (or Judaism) than just the specifics of the faith you disagree with.

If I would have told my Profesors that I was a "Born-Again Christian" when I was in college "back in the day," I would have been treated like they treat Born-Again Christians still.

There were born-again Christians in my philosophy class (whose professor was a confirmed atheist), and he treated them no differently than anyone else in the class. You make overgeneralisation after overgeneralisation and pay no respect to the facts as they're given.

Is your faith so weak that you have to rely on such overgeneralisations to defend it?

Or I would be in a Church that allowed everything. You know, a Liberal Church.

Have you ever been in a liberal church? I have. They don't allow everything, but at least they have the pastoral decency to try to correct the members that do make mistakes instead of just kicking them out.

[AlAyeti]

Have you ever been in a liberal church? I have. They don't allow everything, but at least they have the pastoral decency to try to correct the members that do make mistakes instead of just kicking them out.

//

Magus: "Is your faith so weak that you have to rely on such overgeneralisations to defend it?"

My faith is founded on immutable facts. Somehow changeable to a Liberal.

Yes I have been to a Liberal Church. And if they preach Christ Crucified and as the only way to salvation I'll go again. If they allow sinners to be celebrated I will leave. Again.

That you have presented Muslim theology as equal to that of the Bible is a perfect place for me to find an example of the worth of Liberalism. Someone is right and someonne is wrong. Jesus would not let a person involved in a conversation with Him go away and off to hell.



Though you would.

Sorry, your math is easy to do.

No Isaac, no Jacob (Israel) no Messiah of Israel. Satan knew what he was doing when he sent a false angel to Mohammad. Look at the fruit it has born. Even in you.