What if abortions were kept legal within the reproductive and privacy rights granted in marriage only, and then only with consent of both spouses? If singles want either a child or an abortion, they would have to get parental consent or married, or would be considered married by the state, in either eventuality.
This way, all reproductive decisions would be made privately, by the parties concerned, and would be no one's else's business at all.
How would that play out in different scenarios, from a Christian or non-Christian POV?
Abortion and Marriage
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Cephus
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Re: Abortion and Marriage
Post #21Are you saying that God is such a wimp that he couldn't stop Jesus from being aborted?jcrawford wrote:Rather Herodian, wouldn't you say, seeing how the Messiah may be on his way?
What is this wussy deity you worship anyhow?
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Cathar1950
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Post #22
jcrawford wrote:
jcrawford wrote:
jcrawford wrote:
Cephus wrote:
I think religions such as American bible-believers are the professional when it comes to brainwashing. They shouldn't tell anyone. Maybe you think they should all be registered and reported like sex offenders.Obviously, they are not being abducted, but just brainwashed and persuaded by atheists and secularists into aborting and not having to tell anyone.
jcrawford wrote:
I didn't know the "God-given reproductive and procreative rights of married heterosexual men " were gone. I think you mean "ability" as in they got your balls or maybe they have emasculated you.I don't see how voting for homosexual marriage will restore the God-given reproductive and procreative rights of married heterosexual men.
jcrawford wrote:
Everyone loves a parade.No, because millions of people besides myself are already rallying to the Catholic and Protestant anti-abortion cause against atheistic socialists and secular Jews who promote their so-called rights to kill the offspring of white and black American Christian men without their knowledge and consent.
Cephus wrote:
I guess the homos atheist and secular Jews got to God too and emasculated Him/Her. I don't want to be to anthropomorphic.What is this wussy deity you worship anyhow?
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The Persnickety Platypus
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Post #24
jcrawford,McCulloch wrote:
So it is easier for you to believe that there is some secret racist anti-christian cabal that is abducting the pregnant wives and daughters of black Christians in America and forcing them to under go unwanted abortions and that these women are not coming forward publicly with any complaints than it is to believe that some of the wives and daughters of these black Christians actually willingly seek abortions.
Do you ever wonder why you may be having a problem getting people to rally to your cause?
Not many women are forced to have abortions but don't think that they are not being lied to. They are. Planned parenthood is just about as Satanic as Molech worship if not th exact same demons running the show.
I would suggest you change tactics to preach and teach the humanity being violated by abortion and stop wasting time blaming reprobate doctors from slaughtering children. Teach men and women the truth and you will see results. No one is forcing women to kill their unborn children because their minds have been deluded to not look at the child within them.
There is a very evil thing happening here.
Post #25
It seems that God has certain inalienable rights which humans do not, unless they propose to play God and usurp His authority.The Persnickety Platypus wrote:Jcrawford, since you are a Christian who seems to take such an issue with abortion, I am rather interested in hearing your thoughts on this subject.
Post #26
jcrawford wrote:
Rather Herodian, wouldn't you say, seeing how the Messiah may be on his way?
Five-hundred and seventy-six posts and all you can present is petty insults at a Christian. Why do these moderators sit back and allow this dribble and vitriol directed towards Christians on this of all websites?Are you saying that God is such a wimp that he couldn't stop Jesus from being aborted?
What is this wussy deity you worship anyhow?
jcrawford, Look up the parable about casting pearls before swine.
Post #27
Please provide evidence of "brainwashing" please?I think religions such as American bible-believers are the professional when it comes to brainwashing. They shouldn't tell anyone. Maybe you think they should all be registered and reported like sex offenders.
The existence of so many denominations and different expressions of "Christianity" would make your statement of little substance.
Post #28
It makes much more sense to focus on the reprobate doctors who are killing the babies of white and black married American Protestant and Catholic men though, because there are so few of them in the profession and besides all of them being secularists, a good number of them are secular Jews who probably delight in killing Christian babies and destroying the sanctity of Holy Christian Matrimony.1John2_26 wrote:jcrawford,
Not many women are forced to have abortions but don't think that they are not being lied to. They are. Planned parenthood is just about as Satanic as Molech worship if not th exact same demons running the show.
I would suggest you change tactics to preach and teach the humanity being violated by abortion and stop wasting time blaming reprobate doctors from slaughtering children.
I'm only trying to teach the truth about bloody abortionists. You can have the results.Teach men and women the truth and you will see results.
Post #29
A lot of lurkers are reading these pearly posts and I wouldn't call them all swine before they join us in our civil discussions and debates.1John2_26 wrote:Five-hundred and seventy-six posts and all you can present is petty insults at a Christian. Why do these moderators sit back and allow this dribble and vitriol directed towards Christians on this of all websites?
jcrawford, Look up the parable about casting pearls before swine.
I wouldn't even call all the current posters on this forum swine.
Post #30
I actually find myself in a bit of agreement with both of the last two posts, although I would not use these terms. Yes, I think the thread would be better served to drop the far-fetched references to marriage rights.
Yes, in PP's thread, part of the problem is not distinguishing between what is in God's purview, and what is in man's. PP has tried to make the case that if we accept the Bible as God's true word and that the actions of the Israelites under God's direction (or God's actions themselves as portrayed in the OT) happened as described, then God does seem to be rather indiscriminate in his punishments. I will leave that debate to the other thread.
Are some of them deluded? I think this is probably true, but I think it is an overgeneralization to say they all are. I have heard testimonies from some who are quite anguished at the decision they have to make, and ended up thinking the abortion was really the best.
Is abortion an evil thing?
I think of it as evil in the same way that many other things are evil, but occur repeatedly and frequently and we end up living with it.
War is evil. It (nearly?) always represents the failure to solve problems in other less violent ways. It often represents selfishness, impatience, lack of understanding and compassion, arrogance, and hubris. Sometimes, it is hard to see, however, how to address a situation without war (e.g. Hitler). Nevertheless, we would do well do avoid war whenever we can, even if we cannot eliminate it.
Economic injustice is evil. When some have more than they need or could ever use, and hundreds of millions lack for even basic sustenance, this is evil. Our caplitalistic global economic system arguably produces this evil as an inherent part of the system. It is very difficult for us, especially in a rich country like the US, to live without implicating ourselves in this evil It would be better if we had a different system. Would it be possible to eliminate it? Should not Christians at least try to do more than just ameliorate the system?
I would agree that at least some abortions represent a failure of responsibility. Now, I am not one to say that everyone, Christian or not, should follow the same sexual mores. However, I do think abortion, although not necessarily murder, is violence, and using violence as birth control is not a good thing. Those who are lax in practicing birth control and then have multiple abortions as a result are not, in my view, acting responsibly. They are doing themselvers a disservice, even if one does not take into account the unborn life.
I don't want to get the thread off on the nature of the rights the unborn 'should' have. But I will reiterate that I consider abortion as violence, even as killing a deer, ravaging a landscape, polluting the air with cigarette smoke are all forms of violence in one way or another.
Yes, in PP's thread, part of the problem is not distinguishing between what is in God's purview, and what is in man's. PP has tried to make the case that if we accept the Bible as God's true word and that the actions of the Israelites under God's direction (or God's actions themselves as portrayed in the OT) happened as described, then God does seem to be rather indiscriminate in his punishments. I will leave that debate to the other thread.
Yes, as you say, no one if forcing women to have abortions.1John wrote:No one is forcing women to kill their unborn children because their minds have been deluded to not look at the child within them.
There is a very evil thing happening here.
Are some of them deluded? I think this is probably true, but I think it is an overgeneralization to say they all are. I have heard testimonies from some who are quite anguished at the decision they have to make, and ended up thinking the abortion was really the best.
Is abortion an evil thing?
I think of it as evil in the same way that many other things are evil, but occur repeatedly and frequently and we end up living with it.
War is evil. It (nearly?) always represents the failure to solve problems in other less violent ways. It often represents selfishness, impatience, lack of understanding and compassion, arrogance, and hubris. Sometimes, it is hard to see, however, how to address a situation without war (e.g. Hitler). Nevertheless, we would do well do avoid war whenever we can, even if we cannot eliminate it.
Economic injustice is evil. When some have more than they need or could ever use, and hundreds of millions lack for even basic sustenance, this is evil. Our caplitalistic global economic system arguably produces this evil as an inherent part of the system. It is very difficult for us, especially in a rich country like the US, to live without implicating ourselves in this evil It would be better if we had a different system. Would it be possible to eliminate it? Should not Christians at least try to do more than just ameliorate the system?
I would agree that at least some abortions represent a failure of responsibility. Now, I am not one to say that everyone, Christian or not, should follow the same sexual mores. However, I do think abortion, although not necessarily murder, is violence, and using violence as birth control is not a good thing. Those who are lax in practicing birth control and then have multiple abortions as a result are not, in my view, acting responsibly. They are doing themselvers a disservice, even if one does not take into account the unborn life.
I don't want to get the thread off on the nature of the rights the unborn 'should' have. But I will reiterate that I consider abortion as violence, even as killing a deer, ravaging a landscape, polluting the air with cigarette smoke are all forms of violence in one way or another.
