Jesus Rifles for Military in ME?

[DeBunkem]

Just when you thought the bonehead references to Iraqi "crusade" and "Devil in Fallujah" have ended, Pentagon proves us wrong.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7663

Anti-Semitic email, threats sent to Mikey Weinstein, founder of Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Rifle sight contractor Trijicon reportedly describes group as 'not Christian'; MRFF responds with threat of possible legal action...
And what they will never tell you on Fox "News," and probably not even on CNN or MSNBC, etc., is contained in the following three emails sent to Mikey Weinstein of the Nobel Prize-nominated Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), following an ABC News expos last week on the bible verses that are encoded on the rifle scopes made by Trijicon, Inc., and used by our military serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The first disturbing email below is from a U.S. soldier who happens to be a Caucasian Muslim, horrified by the dangers of having such verse referenced on military equipment used in the Middle East, particularly in the event of capture. The soldier shares an appalling alleged account of his superior officer's description of the weapon as the "the Fire Arm of Jesus Christ.". . . . .MORE

[East of Eden]

So, chris brown, since you know so much about the causes of crime and violence, enlighten us all.

The government makes owning a gun illegal. The law abiding gun owning citizen will most likely give up his fire arm.

So, whose left with the guns, the criminal gangs. So, I'll let you try again, does gun control legislation really reduce crime?

Riiiight... pandora's box has already been opened, so instead of attempting any type of controls, lets just ensure mass proliferation...

Makes PERFECT sense! LOL

Even countries as belligerent as Russia understood the faults in MAD (Mutually Assured Distruction) before they began dismantling their nukes.

Since 1990, Americans own nearly 100,000,000 more guns, and yet crime has fallen dramatically. Why is that?

[JohnnyJersey]

So are you saying that citizens should not be allowed the rights to guns? Where in the bible does it say that civilians cannot carry a firearm?

No, I'm not saying "that citizens should not be allowed the rights to guns". It is up to the government whether citizens have the rights to guns and what those rights are.

The Bible doesn't say civilians cannot carry a firearm; it teaches that the governments make that determination. The Bible teaches that our security is in Christ alone, both our spiritual and physical security. The Bible teaches that God can protect a person no matter what. The Bible teaches that God has delivered unarmed, helpless people from the greatest armies on earth. Jesus and His Disciples set the example of not carrying arms.

And I do believe God will protect me from harm. So, a serial killer breaks into my home, will god strike him down with lightning or will the gun that I have placed in my safety box be the means by which God intended for me to defend myself?

God can strike him with a bolt of lightning. Or He can make him have a heart attack, stroke, aneurism, or he can move his heart to make that intruder flee or go away. He can use the instance to work through you to bring him to Christ. The gun in your safety box has absolutely no bearing on God's control of the situation. If you have the gun, fine; if you don't, fine. Either way, God is in as much control. He doesn't need for you to have a gun. So, if you believe in His protection, you wouldn't feel you NEED a gun.

This also, is representative of the maxist regime being shoved down our throats by this illegitimate president.

What Marxist regime??? And the only illegitimate president I know of is Bush who was appointed by the conservative Supreme Court in 2000. President Obama is very legitimate, you better believe that else face God's judgment through the government, who are ministers of God's justice on earth.

1) Control peoples health, have the government act as the primary healthcare insurance provider. Ration care and decrease the quality of care.

The Constitution of the USA empowers the government to protect the public. Healthcare is a perfect example of one of the ways that people are protected, so it is well within our government's realm of control. It would sure beat having greedy money-worshipers control people's health, basing decisions on whether someone is rich enough or has paid enough or will lose them money and letting people die that way. The Private healthcare system we have is basically a giant Death Squad, deciding who will get what health care and who will live or die. Even IF the government had "death squads", they wouldn't be any worse than the current Death Squads, Inc.

2) Control over people's lives through the FAKE GLOBAL WARMING crisis being advanced by the CROOK AL GORE. Pass Cap and Trade, tell americans what kind of car they can buy based on fuel efficency, be like Jimmy Carter and tell them to put a sweater on instead of turning on the heat.

Jimmy Carter is a good Christian man and his advice of putting on a sweater instead of turning up the heat is wise advice that many people would be wise to heed. As for Global warming, whether it's real or not doesn't even matter, as the fact remains that unnecessary pollution and waste is a misuse of God's Earth. This isn't our planet; we only have dominion over it. We are stewards of it. It isn't here to be abused. How one treats what God has given him is a clear sign of his respect and love for God - so if he abuses what God has given him, he clearly has no respect or love for God.

As for Cap and Trade, that is an economic policy put in place to ensure that companies are paying their fair share for their pollution. If they want to pass the cost on to the customer, so be it, but since they are the polluters then they are responsible for their pollution. Cap and Trade isn't even enough control, especially anything Obama is talking about. Cap and Trade needs to be much stricter than what Obama wants.

3) Collapse the current economic system in america through massive spending and increasing the debt so much that we can never pay it off. Abolish America's Triple A rating.

Capitalism at work; capitalism is a great tool for Satan's work, it gets people hooked on worshiping money so that when money loses value people are controlled easily. This was all the doing of Bush and his satanic family and friends.

4) Rig the voting procedures and elections, as ACORN has done. Force the 2010 census on Americans, CREATE OPEN BORDERS AND REGISTER THESE MEXICANS AS DEMOCRATS. PANDER TO THE HISPANICS BY NOMINATING THE SOTOMAYOR AND CONDEMNING THE ARIZONA LAW, WHICH HASN'T BEEN READ BY THE DAMN ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS AND THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

No illegal Mexicans are being registered as Democrats, much less voting, and ACORN doesn't even exist.

5) And FINALLY, take away the Guns of citizens. IT WAS THIS ILLEGITMATE PRESIDENT WHO SAID

"WE NEED A NATIONAL CIVILIAN TASK FORCE, JUST AS STRONG, JUST AS POWERFUL AND JUST AS WELL FUNDED AS OUR MILITARY."

Yes, he's right. We have a big military but no civilian task force. It's high time we start spending money and resources to help our fellow man rather than kill them.

WHAT THE HELL FOR? Why do we need a "task force." To silence whoever opposes you marxist obama? And you want to take away our guns, which our founding fathers specifically put in place because they knew the consequences when a tyrannical leader like Obama gets in power. But wait, the liberals, the fake president, and the treaonist progressive party smear our founding fathers, they call them slave owners and racists. They rash our constitution, calling a "living document" they appoint judicial activists to the courts and diregard the constitution.

The founding fathers put in place a way for people to organize a militia, not necessarily for anyone with or without fingers to own a gun. Are you saying that everyone should be allowed to just go buy a gun like a pack of gum? Because anything short of that is going to involve government control and, by your logic, is "Marxist".

So, if you don't want to own a gun Johnny, then DON'T! Don't impose your views on OTHER PEOPLE.

I don't want to live in a society that is dangerous because any idiot can own a gun. I will support elected officials who uphold that. It's the government's right to impose these laws on people, and I support the government's rights.

"A fear of guns is a sign of sexual retardation" Sigmund Freud.

I'm not afraid of guns, and I'm not afraid of responsible gun owners; I'm afraid of idiots who carry them around. Last thing I want to see is another Columbine or Virginia Tech incident, or sniper incident, or any of the horrific crimes caused by idiots with guns.

[East of Eden]

The Bible doesn't say civilians cannot carry a firearm; it teaches that the governments make that determination. The Bible teaches that our security is in Christ alone, both our spiritual and physical security. The Bible teaches that God can protect a person no matter what. The Bible teaches that God has delivered unarmed, helpless people from the greatest armies on earth. Jesus and His Disciples set the example of not carrying arms.

Peter was armed at one point, and Jesus said to buy a sword on one occasion. Jesus never reprimanded soldiers He dealt with for bearing arms.

God can strike him with a bolt of lightning. Or He can make him have a heart attack, stroke, aneurism, or he can move his heart to make that intruder flee or go away. He can use the instance to work through you to bring him to Christ. The gun in your safety box has absolutely no bearing on God's control of the situation. If you have the gun, fine; if you don't, fine. Either way, God is in as much control. He doesn't need for you to have a gun. So, if you believe in His protection, you wouldn't feel you NEED a gun.

So why wear seat belts or have insurance?

What Marxist regime??? And the only illegitimate president I know of is Bush who was appointed by the conservative Supreme Court in 2000.

You mean when the Supreme Court threw out that bogus lawsuit from Gore?

The Constitution of the USA empowers the government to protect the public. Healthcare is a perfect example of one of the ways that people are protected, so it is well within our government's realm of control. It would sure beat having greedy money-worshipers control people's health, basing decisions on whether someone is rich enough or has paid enough or will lose them money and letting people die that way. The Private healthcare system we have is basically a giant Death Squad, deciding who will get what health care and who will live or die. Even IF the government had "death squads", they wouldn't be any worse than the current Death Squads, Inc.

Medicare denies twice as many claims as private insurance, and with no recourse.

Capitalism at work; capitalism is a great tool for Satan's work, it gets people hooked on worshiping money so that when money loses value people are controlled easily.

Capitalism is Marxist terminology, it isn't an ideology but a natural pattern of human behaviour that's been around as long as man in which people voluntarily exchange goods and services.

This was all the doing of Bush and his satanic family and friends.

Strange how you can declare Carter to be a good Christian and Bush not. Do you think you're God?

The founding fathers put in place a way for people to organize a militia, not necessarily for anyone with or without fingers to own a gun. Are you saying that everyone should be allowed to just go buy a gun like a pack of gum?

If they have no criminal record, yes. The Supreme Court has already declared the Second Amendment to mean individuals have a right to bear arms.

I'm not afraid of guns, and I'm not afraid of responsible gun owners; I'm afraid of idiots who carry them around. Last thing I want to see is another Columbine or Virginia Tech incident, or sniper incident, or any of the horrific crimes caused by idiots with guns.

No law can stop those crimes, what we can do is protect ourselves. Funny how so many of those killings happen at 'gun-free' zones, where their victims are defenseless. Actually, some of these school shootings have been stopped when faculty retrieved guns from their cars and ended things.

[chris_brown207]

No, but it might take one to believe it.

Thank you for that educated response... and I guess I was a fool for thinking that you would be willing to learn for yourself by doing a little research - my apologies.

From your link, only 1 out of 1,800 guns are stolen per year, and 90% of guns used in crimes are NOT stolen.

And thank you for completely ignoring the 400 pound gorilla that is the guns that ARE stolen... have you fooled yourself into thinking that they are being used for completely legal reasons after they are stolen?

And thank you for providing further evidence to support the fact that further restrictions are called for - if 90% of crimes are committed with legal guns, than obviously there are too many people who have legal guns.

[East of Eden]

And thank you for completely ignoring the 400 pound gorilla that is the guns that ARE stolen... have you fooled yourself into thinking that they are being used for completely legal reasons after they are stolen?

And lots of stolen cars are used in crimes, do you want to ban cars?

And thank you for providing further evidence to support the fact that further restrictions are called for - if 90% of crimes are committed with legal guns, than obviously there are too many people who have legal guns.

Thankfully we have a Second Amendment to protect us from tyranical opinions such as you express.

[chris_brown207]

And thank you for completely ignoring the 400 pound gorilla that is the guns that ARE stolen... have you fooled yourself into thinking that they are being used for completely legal reasons after they are stolen?

And lots of stolen cars are used in crimes, do you want to ban cars?

And thank you for regurgitating the second most used argument straight out of the NRA handbook.

There is a big difference between a car and a gun. One provides great benefits to our nation when used as intended in the hands of everyday citizens. The other has no day to day benefits to the average citizen, and only requires less then a pound of pressure to cause life altering harm to a person. The convenience of handguns gives them an advantage over every other possibly harmful household utensils which could be used to harm a person. And they don't provide half of the utility to the average citizen as normal household utensils.

And thank you for providing further evidence to support the fact that further restrictions are called for - if 90% of crimes are committed with legal guns, than obviously there are too many people who have legal guns.

Thankfully we have a Second Amendment to protect us from tyranical opinions such as you express.

You can thank me later for defending your Constitutional Rights as a member of the military for 15 years, and as a member of Naval Special Operations for almost half of that.

I firmly believe in every citizens rights to defend themselves by all means necessary, including bearing arms. I just don't think every idiot out there deserves to OWN a weapon, as apparently you do.

I have seen many accidents involving weapons during my time in Spec Ops, including seeing two good friends shot during training exercises. I would be willing to bet that all involved had a sight more range time then you, much less the average citizen.

The point being is that while it might seem like a dandy idea for every American to be a gun packing figure of fighting freedom... the reality is many of us who fight regularly for your freedom don't feel the same way.

[East of Eden]

And thank you for regurgitating the second most used argument straight out of the NRA handbook.

I take it that means you won't be answering my question?

There is a big difference between a car and a gun. One provides great benefits to our nation when used as intended in the hands of everyday citizens. The other has no day to day benefits to the average citizen,

Your opinion. I highly value my guns that protects me and my family from criminals, (aside from the recreational value) not to mention a potentially oppressive government if God forbid that ever happened. It's none of your business what others value.

and only requires less then a pound of pressure to cause life altering harm to a person.

And a pound of pressure similarly misapplied to a steering wheel can do an equal amount of damage. So? More people die from swimming accidents than accidental gun deaths, do you want to ban pools?

The convenience of handguns gives them an advantage over every other possibly harmful household utensils which could be used to harm a person. And they don't provide half of the utility to the average citizen as normal household utensils.

Like a car or pool, I wouldn't call a gun a household utensil.

You can thank me later for defending your Constitutional Rights as a member of the military for 15 years, and as a member of Naval Special Operations for almost half of that.

Bully for you, but it doesn't ipso facto make your gun arguments cogent.

I firmly believe in every citizens rights to defend themselves by all means necessary, including bearing arms. I just don't think every idiot out there deserves to OWN a weapon, as apparently you do.

I don't think every idiot should have a gun either, and neither does the NRA. We need to focus our ire on those who misuse guns, not the 99%+ of responsible gun owners.

I have seen many accidents involving weapons during my time in Spec Ops, including seeing two good friends shot during training exercises. I would be willing to bet that all involved had a sight more range time then you, much less the average citizen.

I highly doubt that.

The point being is that while it might seem like a dandy idea for every American to be a gun packing figure of fighting freedom... the reality is many of us who fight regularly for your freedom don't feel the same way.

Your opinion carries no more weight than that of non-servicemen. The 2A applies to all.

[chris_brown207]

I take it that means you won't be answering my question

If you actually read my answer, you would see that I did. And you still don't get the fact that automobiles actually provide something of value to the nation in the hands of just about every citizen, and a gun would not.

I don't think every idiot should have a gun either, and neither does the NRA. We need to focus our ire on those who misuse guns, not the 99%+ of responsible gun owners.

That is funny, since I have yet to hear of the NRA ever proposing restrictions beyond current laws, when - even by your own words - 90% of gun crimes were committed with legal guns. Most of their efforts are spent on loosening restrictions (as are the many lobbyists that gun manufacturers and the NRA pay for).

[quote"chris_brown207"]I have seen many accidents involving weapons during my time in Spec Ops, including seeing two good friends shot during training exercises. I would be willing to bet that all involved had a sight more range time then you, much less the average citizen.

I highly doubt that.[/quote]

Well step up to the plate... name the range time: how often, and how much.

Your opinion carries no more weight than that of non-servicemen. The 2A applies to all.

I agree the 2A does apply to everyone. Everyone has a right to bear weapons in defense of this nation or themselves. And if it ever came down to it, I would be right there issuing out guns.

The 2A in no way guarantees a right to OWN a gun though, and that is what we are talking about.

(And I am sure every soldier, sailor, and airman would be happy to know that you share such a high opinion of them.)

[East of Eden]

If you actually read my answer, you would see that I did. And you still don't get the fact that automobiles actually provide something of value to the nation in the hands of just about every citizen, and a gun would not.

What's that car going to do for you at 3 am when thugs are breaking in?

That is funny, since I have yet to hear of the NRA ever proposing restrictions beyond current laws, when - even by your own words - 90% of gun crimes were committed with legal guns. Most of their efforts are spent on loosening restrictions (as are the many lobbyists that gun manufacturers and the NRA pay for).

Wrong again, the NRA supports many gun laws, including federal and state laws that prohibit the possession of firearms by certain categories of people, such as convicted violent criminals, those prohibiting sales of firearms to juveniles, and those requiring instant criminal records checks on retail firearm purchasers.

Well step up to the plate... name the range time: how often, and how much.

I don't keep track of my range time, do you? I shoot several times a month, and own:

Colt .22 Frontier Scout
Ruger LCP .380
Ruger LCR .38
Colt 1911
RIA 1911
Colt Trooper .357
CZ-75 9mm
Sig P-6 9mm
Swedish Mauser, 6.5 mm
German Mauser, 8 mm
Russian Moisan-Nagant rifle
Chinese SKS rifle
RRA AR-15 in .223
Henry .22 rifle
Colt Detective Special .38

.....and have shot MANY more. And you?

I agree the 2A does apply to everyone. Everyone has a right to bear weapons in defense of this nation or themselves. And if it ever came down to it, I would be right there issuing out guns.

The 2A in no way guarantees a right to OWN a gun though, and that is what we are talking about.

And not everyone has a right to a drivers license.

(And I am sure every soldier, sailor, and airman would be happy to know that you share such a high opinion of them.)

I have a number of military in my family who agree with me on this issue (including a former Navy Captain fighter pilot who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam). I would bet your restrictive gun view would be a minority position among military personel.

[chris_brown207]

What's that car going to do for you at 3 am when thugs are breaking in?

Riiiight, and how often has that happened to you? I can tell you how much I use my car on a day to day basis, and it is very useful to me (and to society - I build products for the bomb squad community now that I am out).

Wrong again, the NRA supports many gun laws, including federal and state laws that prohibit the possession of firearms by certain categories of people, such as convicted violent criminals, those prohibiting sales of firearms to juveniles, and those requiring instant criminal records checks on retail firearm purchasers.

Riiight, and that is why every time a states seeks to tighten their gun laws, the NRA is right there supporting them. I would like to see if you can find even ONE instance in which a state sought to tighten restrictions (i.e. decrease the number of people that would be elligible) and that the NRA gave a press release supporting their decision. (And no, I am not talking about press releases supporting states current position, I am talking about when a state is increasing restrictions).

I don't keep track of my range time, do you? I shoot several times a month. And you?

We would normally put a few thousand rounds down range with our primary and secondary every quarter.

As for what, we would primarily shoot M4 and M9. However, we also practiced proficiency with the other weapons we would encounter:
M16, M1911, Sig Saur 9, MP5, M14, M60, SAW, .50 cal (Sniper Rifle and Machine guns), M203, EBR, Mk 19 Grenade Launcher, Benelli .12 guage, ... not to mention demo operations on the demo ranges, or the live fire exercises in kill houses.

As for what I own - used to own an XD .40 for the exact reason you stated - home protection. That is until it was stolen out of my house (no they weren't stupid enough to break in while I was there). Now I have a dog and a bat... neither of which I have ever had to use.

And not everyone has a right to a drivers license.

Exactly, I am glad we are starting to speak the same language.

I would bet your restrictive gun view would be a minority position among military personel.

My view that people who want guns should face a tough standard to be eligible to own one? Every military member who carries one in the line of duty had to pass tests, and qualifications in order to do so - so I doubt it.

Matter of fact, I would like you to quote a source which shows that the majority of the military disagree with my position.