The armed Christian

[Pastor4Jesus]

DISCLAIMER; THIS THREAD ADDRESSES THE HIGHLY RADICALIZED AND MILITRIZED ISLAMIC TERRORIST. I DENOUNCE ALL TERRORIST ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING THOSE THAT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN. I HAVE NO BIAS AGAINST ANY RELIGION OR ATHEIST BELIEFS. I PERSONALLY LOVE MY PEACEFUL MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS, AND PRAY THAT THEY PRACTICE THE RELIGION IN A NORMAL NON-RADICALIZED AND REJECT THE RADICAL FALSE PROPHETS.



I think all Christians should be armed where legal and if its not legal those Christians should diligently work to change policy to make it legal. I would suggest that all Christians have several weapons which would include a battle rifle and a pistol then a back up of each with at least a thousand rounds of ammo for each. Also provisions should be stored for a month or more.

Why do I say this? Self defense. There is a radical element in Islam that is intent of destroying the United States, Israel, and what she stands for (the perceived Christian West and values). Of course I am speaking of the highly radicalized/Militized Muslim element. With lets talk about it Obama in office I predict a major terrorist attack on the USA or the west before he leaves office.

As the Islamic terrorists demonstrated they would use any weapon from a box cutter to a AK-47 to explosives to airliners filled with fuel to kill citizens of the west. Their MO in areas where they have free reign is to support coups and takeovers. Considering those facts, I don't think its too conspiracy theorist extreme to envision well funded terrorists attempting to take over a small town or part of a city. Maybe if the terrorists know that a particular group of citizens may be heavily armed, maybe they will pick on someone else. Going armed would send a message to radical Islam and more importantly if all Christians would go armed it would serve a practical purpose if terrorists decide to make an example out of your town.



P4JC

[FinalEnigma]

The ones that blow things up(abortion clinics) and the ones that go around beating and sometimes killing people they disprove of(such as homosexuals).

Perhaps if you had a concealed firearm you wouldn't be so fearful.

a concealed firearm would not help me if I was walking past an abortion clinic, and it suddenly blew up and blasted me with shrapnel.

and yeah, a gun would protect me from someone assaulting me, most likely. if they didn't have a gun, too. However, I can't legally do that, because I see a therapist (for executive dysfunction as a result of Asperger's. I'm perfectly sane/stable, I just have problems with function).

and is this the correct solution anyway? some misguided person out there is threatening, so blast them?

The ones who try to take away or change my rights, because of what their book says...

So file a lawsuit if you think your rights are threatened, which I doubt they are.

atheists already do that. and, frequently, lose.
Nor does a 22 year old college student have the time or money to go around filing lawsuits.

Here is Arkansas, since it's the bible belt, there are laws with pure religious motivations that needlessly restrict everyone.

and the ones who think they're 'America's free cops' just because they have a concealed sidearm.

Since licensed gun carriers, far from being a threat, stop as many crimes a year as the cops do, I'll write off that fear of yours to blind ideology. BTW, I'm not too fond of anti-gunners trying to take away my 2A rights.

There's some responsible gun owners/carries, yes.
I never disputed that, but not all of them are. some of these people who hold themselves to be America's free cops, will pull out a gun and start shooting at utterly inappropriate times, injuring bystanders, or get them self injured or killed by return fire. A gun does not make you a cop.
They do not have the training to know the appropriate time and place for use of deadly force.

I'm not a gun control nut. I have no problems with people owning weapons. I do have a problem with irresponsible people owning weapons and walking around with an attitude because they think the weapon makes them invincible. You cannot deny that this happens, and the 'America's free cop' attitude promotes this (especially among the young. 20's or so).

[East of Eden]

and is this the correct solution anyway? some misguided person out there is threatening, so blast them?

That's pretty much what the cops do. Actually, in the many cases where citizens successfully use guns for protection, very few actually kill someone. Usually the sight of a gun will make a perp rethink. They may be criminals, but they aren't stupid.

Here is Arkansas, since it's the bible belt, there are laws with pure religious motivations that needlessly restrict everyone.

If the majority in your area support such laws, so what? We have separation of church and state, but not of faith and state.

There's some responsible gun owners/carries, yes.

Like 99.99% of licensed conceal carry people.

I never disputed that, but not all of them are. some of these people who hold themselves to be America's free cops, will pull out a gun and start shooting at utterly inappropriate times, injuring bystanders, or get them self injured or killed by return fire. A gun does not make you a cop.

That happens in very few CCW cases, and if it does we should revoke their licenses. Again, millions of crimes are prevented by them, a handful misuse their right. Not all cops are perfect either.

They do not have the training to know the appropriate time and place for use of deadly force.

How do you know that? When my wife and I got our permits we had to attend a two-day course on that subject.

I'm not a gun control nut. I have no problems with people owning weapons. I do have a problem with irresponsible people owning weapons and walking around with an attitude because they think the weapon makes them invincible. You cannot deny that this happens, and the 'America's free cop' attitude promotes this (especially among the young. 20's or so).

Again, in the few cases where this right is abused, it should be revoked.

[FinalEnigma]

and is this the correct solution anyway? some misguided person out there is threatening, so blast them?

That's pretty much what the cops do. Actually, in the many cases where citizens successfully use guns for protection, very few actually kill someone. Usually the sight of a gun will make a perp rethink. They may be criminals, but they aren't stupid.

I'm aware of the deterrence factor, but that isn't what I meant.

if some Christians want to beat or kill homosexuals, the solution shouldn't be to wait until they try, and then shoot them.

nor is my personal safety the only reason to be concerned about such things. I am not the only person in the world that I wish not to be harmed.

Here is Arkansas, since it's the bible belt, there are laws with pure religious motivations that needlessly restrict everyone.

If the majority in your area support such laws, so what? We have separation of church and state, but not of faith and state.

so...they're still making laws about my behavior based on Christianity. Just because it isn't illegal to do so doesn't mean it's not something worthy of concern.

There's some responsible gun owners/carries, yes.

Like 99.99% of licensed conceal carry people.

I never disputed that, but not all of them are. some of these people who hold themselves to be America's free cops, will pull out a gun and start shooting at utterly inappropriate times, injuring bystanders, or get them self injured or killed by return fire. A gun does not make you a cop.

That happens in very few CCW cases, and if it does we should revoke their licenses. Again, millions of crimes are prevented by them, a handful misuse their right. Not all cops are perfect either.

its time for some statistics here.

can you show that millions of crimes are prevented by CCW? can you show that 99.9% of licensed carries are responsible?

(I won't respond for a few hours either way. I have to go to lunch.)

They do not have the training to know the appropriate time and place for use of deadly force.

How do you know that? When my wife and I got our permits we had to attend a two-day course on that subject.

Then some people don't pay attention. or some states don't have such laws. I've seen enough stories about somebody pulling a gun to prevent a crime and making it worse.

I'm not a gun control nut. I have no problems with people owning weapons. I do have a problem with irresponsible people owning weapons and walking around with an attitude because they think the weapon makes them invincible. You cannot deny that this happens, and the 'America's free cop' attitude promotes this (especially among the young. 20's or so).

Again, in the few cases where this right is abused, it should be revoked.

how about we stop promoting the unhealthy attitude to begin with?

[East of Eden]

I'm aware of the deterrence factor, but that isn't what I meant.

if some Christians want to beat or kill homosexuals, the solution shouldn't be to wait until they try, and then shoot them.

nor is my personal safety the only reason to be concerned about such things. I am not the only person in the world that I wish not to be harmed.

Then you should support concealed carry laws.

so...they're still making laws about my behavior based on Christianity.

Yes, ML King Jr. did that too.

its time for some statistics here.

can you show that millions of crimes are prevented by CCW? can you show that 99.9% of licensed carries are responsible?

(I won't respond for a few hours either way. I have to go to lunch.)

Concealed Carry Permits Are Life Savers
by Rep. Cliff Stearns

01/26/2009

The right to bear arms is more than a Constitutional right: every human being has the natural unalienable right to self-defense. Cicero said 2,000 years ago, If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.

The U.S. Constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, common law, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use arms in self-defense. Right to carry laws respect the right to self-defense by allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms for their own protection.

So many liberal politicians and self-appointed experts want to keep honest Americans from having access to firearms, even though, since 2003, in states which allow concealed carry, violent crime rates have been lower than anytime since the mid-1970s. The reverse logic of this "knee jerk" reaction is astounding and has lead to an outright assault on our basic Constitutional and natural rights. These misguided policies to keep firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens literally mean a death sentence for thousands of Americans.


Look at the facts. According to a study by criminologist Gary Kleck of Florida State University, [R]obbery and assault victims who used a gun to resist were less likely to be attacked or to suffer an injury than those who used any other methods of self-protection or those who did not resist at all. In approximately 2.5 million instances each year, someone uses a firearm, predominantly a handgun, for self defense in this nation.

In research sponsored by the U.S. Department of Justice, in which almost 2,000 felons were interviewed, 34% of felons said they had been scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim" and 40% of these criminals admitted that they had been deterred from committing a crime out of fear that the potential victim was armed.

Allowing law-abiding people to arm themselves offers more than piece of mind for those individuals -- it pays off for everybody through lower crime rates. Statistics from the FBIs Uniformed Crime Report of 2007 show that states with right-to-carry laws have a 30% lower homicide rate, 46% lower robbery, and 12% lower aggravated assault rate and a 22% lower overall violent crime rate than do states without such laws. That is why more and more states have passed right-to-carry laws over the past decade.

In 1987, my home state of Florida enacted a shall issue law that has become the model for other states. Anti-gun groups, politicians and the news media predicted the new law would lead to vigilante justice and Wild West shootouts on every corner.

But since adopting a concealed carry law Floridas total violent crime rate has dropped 32% and its homicide rate has dropped 58%. Floridians, except for criminals, are safer due to this law. And Florida is not alone. Texas violent crime rate has dropped 20% and homicide rate has dropped 31%, since enactment of its 1996 carry law.

Another study makes the moral case for expanding and enhancing right-to-carry laws. A report by John Lott, Jr. and David Mustard of the University of Chicago released in 1996 found "that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths." Further, the Lott-Mustard study noted, "If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly."

Think about it. Nearly 8,000 of our fellow citizens have died between 1992 and 1996 because of the irrational fear that law-abiding Americans would abuse their right to self defense. In fact concealed carry permit holders are more law-abiding than the rest of the public. For example, Florida, which has issued more carry permits than any state has issued 1.36 million permits, but revoked only 165 (0.01%) due to gun crimes by permit-holders.

Laws allowing the concealed carrying of a firearm are on the books in 48 states, in some form. Two-thirds of Americans live in states with right-to-carry laws, their respective state houses and governors recognizing their fundamental right to self-defense. But let me pose a question. Should your natural right to self defense and your Constitutional right to bear arms end when you cross a state line? I think not.

That is why I, along with Representative Rich Boucher (D-Va.) introduced H.R. 197, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act. Our legislation proposes a federal law that would entitle any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry in any other state, as follows: In a state that issues carry permits, its laws would apply. In states that dont issue carry permits, the Federal law providing a "bright-line" standard would permit carrying in places other than police stations; courthouses; public polling places; meetings of state, county, or municipal governing bodies; schools; passenger areas of airports; etc. The bright-light standard in itself is not a license -- the individual would still have to possess a valid state permit issued by their state of residence. It doesn't make sense to me for Americans to forfeit their safety because they happen to be on vacation or on a business trip. This legislation would greatly enhance the safety of this nation's ever-increasing mobile society.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Our society is a violent society. However, the innocent deserve access to the tools they need to defend themselves. By passing H.R. 197, we can help reduce the carnage wrought by armed criminals. Let's give those who decide to take the responsibility of possessing a concealed carry permit a fighting chance anywhere in America.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Stearns, a Republican, represents the 6th District of Florida in the U.S. House of Representatives.


No offense, but IMHO much anti-gun sentiment is based on fear and ignorance.

how about we stop promoting the unhealthy attitude to begin with?

Either show some facts that gun ownership by non-criminal, responsible citizens is 'unhealthy' or retract that phrase.

[WinePusher]

Sigmund Freud: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)

Brilliant post my friend, Especially Freud's

eh? A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity?

reading this, I had to laugh. This is exactly how most men think in modern society.

I think the need to show everyone how unafraid of weapons (and therefore macho and manly(sexually mature)) you are is the real sign of sexual and emotional immaturity.

some men feel the need to openly display their fearlessness of weapons, brag about their sexual prowess, and buy sports cars and really big grills.

Real men are secure enough that they don't need everyone else to tell them they're men, and don't need to take potshots at their opponent's masculinity.

Well, my statement regarding freud's quote was supposed to be humorous. As his quote was probably the most outlandish out of them all

[FinalEnigma]

I'm aware of the deterrence factor, but that isn't what I meant.

if some Christians want to beat or kill homosexuals, the solution shouldn't be to wait until they try, and then shoot them.

nor is my personal safety the only reason to be concerned about such things. I am not the only person in the world that I wish not to be harmed.

Then you should support concealed carry laws.

you're ignoring the point. neither concealed carry laws, nor arming myself, would remove the danger that extreme homophobic Christians present to homosexuals.

stop trying to solve the problem of ignorance and intolerance with a gun.

so...they're still making laws about my behavior based on Christianity.

Yes, ML King Jr. did that too.

that is absurd. ML king Jr. did not speak for equal rights because the bible told him so. he spoke for equal rights becasue he darn well knew it was right.

and even if he had done so based on the bible, that would be irrelevant. It is not appropriate to base laws on a religion.

its time for some statistics here.

can you show that millions of crimes are prevented by CCW? can you show that 99.9% of licensed carries are responsible?

(I won't respond for a few hours either way. I have to go to lunch.)

Concealed Carry Permits Are Life Savers
by Rep. Cliff Stearns

01/26/2009

The right to bear arms is more than a Constitutional right: every human being has the natural unalienable right to self-defense. Cicero said 2,000 years ago, If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.

The U.S. Constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, common law, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use arms in self-defense. Right to carry laws respect the right to self-defense by allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms for their own protection.

So many liberal politicians and self-appointed experts want to keep honest Americans from having access to firearms, even though, since 2003, in states which allow concealed carry, violent crime rates have been lower than anytime since the mid-1970s. The reverse logic of this "knee jerk" reaction is astounding and has lead to an outright assault on our basic Constitutional and natural rights. These misguided policies to keep firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens literally mean a death sentence for thousands of Americans.


Look at the facts. According to a study by criminologist Gary Kleck of Florida State University, [R]obbery and assault victims who used a gun to resist were less likely to be attacked or to suffer an injury than those who used any other methods of self-protection or those who did not resist at all. In approximately 2.5 million instances each year, someone uses a firearm, predominantly a handgun, for self defense in this nation.

In research sponsored by the U.S. Department of Justice, in which almost 2,000 felons were interviewed, 34% of felons said they had been scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim" and 40% of these criminals admitted that they had been deterred from committing a crime out of fear that the potential victim was armed.

Allowing law-abiding people to arm themselves offers more than piece of mind for those individuals -- it pays off for everybody through lower crime rates. Statistics from the FBIs Uniformed Crime Report of 2007 show that states with right-to-carry laws have a 30% lower homicide rate, 46% lower robbery, and 12% lower aggravated assault rate and a 22% lower overall violent crime rate than do states without such laws. That is why more and more states have passed right-to-carry laws over the past decade.

In 1987, my home state of Florida enacted a shall issue law that has become the model for other states. Anti-gun groups, politicians and the news media predicted the new law would lead to vigilante justice and Wild West shootouts on every corner.

But since adopting a concealed carry law Floridas total violent crime rate has dropped 32% and its homicide rate has dropped 58%. Floridians, except for criminals, are safer due to this law. And Florida is not alone. Texas violent crime rate has dropped 20% and homicide rate has dropped 31%, since enactment of its 1996 carry law.

Another study makes the moral case for expanding and enhancing right-to-carry laws. A report by John Lott, Jr. and David Mustard of the University of Chicago released in 1996 found "that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths." Further, the Lott-Mustard study noted, "If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly."

Think about it. Nearly 8,000 of our fellow citizens have died between 1992 and 1996 because of the irrational fear that law-abiding Americans would abuse their right to self defense. In fact concealed carry permit holders are more law-abiding than the rest of the public. For example, Florida, which has issued more carry permits than any state has issued 1.36 million permits, but revoked only 165 (0.01%) due to gun crimes by permit-holders.

Laws allowing the concealed carrying of a firearm are on the books in 48 states, in some form. Two-thirds of Americans live in states with right-to-carry laws, their respective state houses and governors recognizing their fundamental right to self-defense. But let me pose a question. Should your natural right to self defense and your Constitutional right to bear arms end when you cross a state line? I think not.

That is why I, along with Representative Rich Boucher (D-Va.) introduced H.R. 197, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act. Our legislation proposes a federal law that would entitle any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry in any other state, as follows: In a state that issues carry permits, its laws would apply. In states that dont issue carry permits, the Federal law providing a "bright-line" standard would permit carrying in places other than police stations; courthouses; public polling places; meetings of state, county, or municipal governing bodies; schools; passenger areas of airports; etc. The bright-light standard in itself is not a license -- the individual would still have to possess a valid state permit issued by their state of residence. It doesn't make sense to me for Americans to forfeit their safety because they happen to be on vacation or on a business trip. This legislation would greatly enhance the safety of this nation's ever-increasing mobile society.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Our society is a violent society. However, the innocent deserve access to the tools they need to defend themselves. By passing H.R. 197, we can help reduce the carnage wrought by armed criminals. Let's give those who decide to take the responsibility of possessing a concealed carry permit a fighting chance anywhere in America.

I'll admit, I assumed your 99.9% was standard exaggeration. however, you have failed to show that concealed carry prevents millions of crimes, you showed that guns deterred those crimes.

No offense, but IMHO much anti-gun sentiment is based on fear and ignorance.

alright, you can say such things all you like. You can even quote people insulting my masculinity for not being a gun collector, but pay heed to what you're doing.

I've known cops who have seen a bad situation turn into a nightmare because some yahoo with a gun thought he'd shoot the bad guy.

I have fired guns. plenty of guns. plenty of times. from pistols to grenade launchers to 50 cal machine guns.
I know most of the trends you are touting. I've also seen someone killed by a gun not 5 feet from me. Ignorance? no.

am I afraid of guns? no. I used to be. Used to be you would slam a door near me and I'd freak. do I intend to ever own a gun? probably. I don't now.

Do I want to have people around me with guns? not generally. I don't trust people I've never met with my life when I can possibly avoid it.

how about we stop promoting the unhealthy attitude to begin with?

Either show some facts that gun ownership by non-criminal, responsible citizens is 'unhealthy' or retract that phrase.

Umm, no.
I never claimed any such thing, and I won't defend it. I specifically spoke to irresponsible people.

I will say again, it is unhealthy to think that having a concealed weapon makes you invincible. it is societally detrimental to think that having a concealed weapon makes you a cop, and I don't think we should promote either attitude.

[East of Eden]

you're ignoring the point. neither concealed carry laws, nor arming myself, would remove the danger that extreme homophobic Christians present to homosexuals.

Said threats are vastly overstated, and much exceeded by gay activists attacks, i.e. profaning Catholic services, etc. Anyway, there is a gay group called the Pink Pistols who would disagree with you that arming themselves doesn't protect them.

that is absurd. ML king Jr. did not speak for equal rights because the bible told him so. he spoke for equal rights becasue he darn well knew it was right.

Because of his Christian convictions that all men are created equal and in God's image, the same principles that motivated William Wilberforce to end the slave trade.

BTW, how does an atheist decide what is 'right'?

and even if he had done so based on the bible, that would be irrelevant. It is not appropriate to base laws on a religion.

Only on atheism, huh? What motivates ones vote is none of your business.

I'll admit, I assumed your 99.9% was standard exaggeration. however, you have failed to show that concealed carry prevents millions of crimes, you showed that guns deterred those crimes.

The article I posted showed that states with conceal carry laws have lower crime rates.

alright, you can say such things all you like. You can even quote people insulting my masculinity for not being a gun collector, but pay heed to what you're doing.

I've known cops who have seen a bad situation turn into a nightmare because some yahoo with a gun thought he'd shoot the bad guy.

I have fired guns. plenty of guns. plenty of times. from pistols to grenade launchers to 50 cal machine guns.
I know most of the trends you are touting. I've also seen someone killed by a gun not 5 feet from me. Ignorance? no.

am I afraid of guns? no. I used to be. Used to be you would slam a door near me and I'd freak. do I intend to ever own a gun? probably. I don't now.

Do I want to have people around me with guns? not generally. I don't trust people I've never met with my life when I can possibly avoid it.

You may not have fear but you do display ignorance when you dispute that more guns equal less crime. Since 1991 the US has 90,000,000 more guns and yet our crime rate is lower.

I don't care if you have guns or not, just don't infringe on my right to protect me and my family.

I never claimed any such thing, and I won't defend it. I specifically spoke to irresponsible people.

OK, we both agree irresponsible people shouldn't have guns.

I will say again, it is unhealthy to think that having a concealed weapon makes you invincible. it is societally detrimental to think that having a concealed weapon makes you a cop, and I don't think we should promote either attitude.

Where did I say having a gun makes you invincible? Studies showed those who are armed do better when attacked then the unarmed.

Having a gun is like wearing a seatbelt or having insurance - you hope you never need them but if you do and don't have them, it can significantly change your life for the worse. I for one am not willing to call the police and have them show up a half hour later and draw a chalk line around me and my loved ones.

[DeBunkem]

Armed "Xtian" government-hating conservatives? We can take care of that again...

[East of Eden]

Armed "Xtian" government-hating conservatives? We can take care of that again...

You need a Revolutionary War picture there.

[Jester]

I don't object to those who wish to protect themselves, within reason of course. I don't see that Christianity is really a rallying cause to that end. The verses that come to mind are as follows:

If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles.

A burning candle he will not snuff out. A bent reed he will not break.

Lest I be accused of quote-mining, the entire religion of Christianity, for those of us who believe in it, was founded by a man dying for his enemies, and brought to the world by a group of martyrs. I can't think of a religion less fit support the idea that we ought to use violence as a primary means of solving our problems.