Does "War in Iraq" define Conservative politics?

[questioner4]

Why are people that self-identify as "Christian," supporting Conservative politics?

Conservatives have ignored or broken international laws to wage a war on Iraq, killing tens of thousands of people. Why do Christians still support Conservativess?

The War In Iraq is to kill tens of thousands of people.

Why would Christians want to be part of a political movement that tens of thousands of people?

Clearly this word "War In Iraq" defines the arrogance and greed that is the "core values" in the Conservative political movement across America today.

Are not Christians "called" to not kill people?

Why do Christians that have read the words of Christ Jesus, "especially on killing people," continue to support Conservative politics?

[Cathar1950]

MagusYanam wrote:

So you're advocating theocracy? Thanks for making my case for me. In a democracy, you have to allow bad speech with good - it's the only way people can reason themselves toward the good.

That is a good question. Is trying to set up a theocracy is the USA treason?
Is he not calling for the overthow of our Gov.?
It is a good thing God sets up nation instead of Republicans. Oh wait, they are.

AlAyeti wrote:
Let's see how many would take a Bible test to prove their "Christianity?" I'm willing to go point for point.

MagusYanam wrote:
Students and ministers from any reputable theological seminary in the nation versus nepotistically selected fundamentalist 'pastors'? What can I say but 'bring it on'? I'll provide the soap-box and get the funding for the moderating panel!

I would pay to see that.

[AlAyeti]

Quote:
I think he'd have said it was wrong, if that's what you mean. As do I. That having been said, until I see something solid and practicable which will effectively reduce the number of abortions in this country, anti-abortion activists have no valid reason to complain to me about it.

I'm intrigued as to why you think Jesus would think abortion is wrong (Al too). I think you are projecting your modern moral views backwards.

Magus, do you see why Jesus used the analogy of not casting pearls before swine? Christianity has no place being argued in front of a whore house.

Jesus would have quoted Old Testement Law, as he tended to do. He would have pointed out that the Law does not prescribe punishment for causing a misscarriage unless the husband wants to impose a fine.

"If" it is caused by an accident than justice is measured accordingly. Abortion for birth control is murder in the first degree. Both in context that is.

He might have pointed out that the immortal soul is not harmed by abortion, and the ultimate destiny of the soul is not alter either.

Whose immortal soul? The abortionist and man and woman complicit in the murder of the unborn human do indeed have an eternal soul to be held accountable. The innocent human being killed to make the doctor money and to allow the parents a life free of consequence will face their actions to a God that is clear as sitting in judgment of people and their actions.

Non-believers can laugh it all away but those that believe in the Creator of all things will not or should not. The kinds of people that laughed a Noah are well represented in todays "modern morality."

[AlAyeti]

It's worth noting that one twenty-five-year-old man does not the entire African-American community make. If that's what you're trying to imply with that little anecdote (what all 'homeys' think or say), that's racism and I deplore it.

Magus,

The young man that got two different women pregnant and is marrying neither, is not African-America. But he does listen to "Fiddy Cent."

Stereotypes do indeed cross all political boundairies. And so does the corruptiuon of our society by liberalism and relativism.

Conservatives are a better cut of person by a long shot.

[bernee51]

Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

Can a Christian oppose Christ and be a Christian?

Denying Christ means you are not a Christian.

And it means freedom form dogma and an ideology of intolerance.

Quote:
Civil liberties are in themselves a moral good. Just look up Immanuel Kant or any other Christian ethicist.

I choose to think for myself. Dead philosophers of yestercentury are truly meaningless in society that cannot judge right from wrong anymore.

Now you are being hypocritcal. Not only do you take your lead on moral and ethical matters from your interpretation of the bible (??thinking for yourself??), you have happily quoted long dead philosophers in other threads on this forum in order to support you opinions.

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

And your view as an atheist can shed light on what? Many Christian Liberals believe like you do that Jesus did not exist. Sorry man that counts them out of the fold. There are immutable facts "in the New Testamant" that seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat.

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
Can a Christian oppose Christ and be a Christian?

Denying Christ means you are not a Christian.

And it means freedom form dogma and an ideology of intolerance.

I thought you just presented that there was nothing to judge Christians by . . dogma or ideology? You must like the Christians that deny Christ and believe like you do? But that makes them an atheist and not a Christian.

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
Civil liberties are in themselves a moral good. Just look up Immanuel Kant or any other Christian ethicist.

I choose to think for myself. Dead philosophers of yestercentury are truly meaningless in society that cannot judge right from wrong anymore.

Now you are being hypocritcal. Not only do you take your lead on moral and ethical matters from your interpretation of the bible (??thinking for yourself??), you have happily quoted long dead philosophers in other threads on this forum in order to support you opinions.

Wrong again Bernee, I present dead people that believe like I do to prove that I am neither a bigot or a shallow thinker. Most of whom I learned about after I searched for and found the truth. Many I was referred to after debating some anti-Christian.

Like me these people in the past thought for themselves as well. How many "enlightened" thinkers were just club members of those that bitched at the church with the same old tired questions and accusations? All of which are designed to allow the person to go on with a less than moral life or to make them feel so important. What has changed in the bobbleheadism of past anti-Christians and the world's current educated elite? They just want to keep their jobs in comfy little Universities. There is nothing new under the sun. (Where have I heard that before?)

. . . you have happily quoted long dead philosophers in other threads on this forum in order to support you opinions.

I feel somewhat comforted in knowing that you are looking out for my past deeds. (On these boards I mean.) There are so things you represent, that you know, I admire in you. But, I don't keep track of when and where you posted what I admire. I have a kind of warm and fuzzy glow right now.
_________________

[Cathar1950]

AlAyeti wrote:

I have a kind of warm and fuzzy glow right now.

I think the warm glow your having is from all the sex talk. It seems you took a thread on the war in Iraq to rantings about homosexuality and aborting. These seem to be some of you favorite topic along with all that naughty sex.
I suspect you have a church full of bobbleheaded parishioners listening to your misguided, wrong headed, preconceived, authoritarian garbage.

Nope not homosexuality this time. Californians denying parental rights to their own children is Satanic. It is as evil and perverted as it gets. Abortion is also as evil as it gets and that is a Liberal mantra that has them hypnotized to kill more humans in the womb than have ever fought in wars.

I think you pants are on fire.

In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old (this statistic includes miscarriages in the term "abortion").

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/aborti ... nstats.htm

Or the ones that think chopping up babies for birth control is wrong?

They are worried they won't fit into their prom dresses next month.

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Same source. Not one mention of prom dresses.

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

I doubt you know any facts.

You provide the soap box and I will clean the floor with these hypocrites in five minutes.

I doubt it.

There are very, very few Christians on this website that will stand up to Liberals-agnostics-progressives-atheists-freethinkers . . . yada, yada. There is virtue in fighting against those that attack Christ and the Gospel.

I question your virtue.

Abortion and sexualizing the youth are pet Liberal civil rights.

Your fire is spreading.

Christians have no business anymore in American politics.

Please quit voting then.

The only victims of Liberal politics are slaughtered unborn children and the fathers and mothers of those decadent lifestyles promoted by Liberal politics.

I think your almost engulfed in flames.

"If" it is caused by an accident than justice is measured accordingly. Abortion for birth control is murder in the first degree. Both in context that is.

No it isn't and it is not against the law. Are you counting miscarriages too?

Christianity has no place being argued in front of a whore house.

Non-believers can laugh it all away but those that believe in the Creator of all things will not or should not. The kinds of people that laughed a Noah are well represented in todays "modern morality."

Like you Noah was a mythical human.

Stereotypes do indeed cross all political boundairies. And so does the corruptiuon of our society by liberalism and relativism.
The fire consumed your mind.

Conservatives are a better cut of person by a long shot.

You have shown that to be false also.

I have issues with the war. We attached another nation under mistaken information and manipulation of data. Much of the problems with the Islamic world is sadly of the western worlds making.
In the Bible God builds nations. Now we are building them?
I believe that the means justifies the end and not the other way around.
We haven't a clue to what we are doing over there.
I would like to ask for every ones forgiveness but I feel prey to indignation.

[bernee51]

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

And your view as an atheist can shed light on what?

That the bible is now, always has been and always will be a book of myth like the myriad other 'sacred scriptures' written over the millennia.

There are immutable facts "in the New Testamant" that seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat.

And what would these 'immutable facts' be that "seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat."

But that makes them an atheist and not a Christian.

No it just makes them not a 'true christian' (tm) like you

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
Civil liberties are in themselves a moral good. Just look up Immanuel Kant or any other Christian ethicist.

I choose to think for myself. Dead philosophers of yestercentury are truly meaningless in society that cannot judge right from wrong anymore.

Now you are being hypocritcal. Not only do you take your lead on moral and ethical matters from your interpretation of the bible (??thinking for yourself??), you have happily quoted long dead philosophers in other threads on this forum in order to support you opinions.

Wrong again Bernee, I present dead people that believe like I do to prove that I am neither a bigot or a shallow thinker. Most of whom I learned about after I searched for and found the truth. Many I was referred to after debating some anti-Christian.

Doesn't make you any less a hypocrit does it. You were attacking Magus for referring to 'a long dead philosopher' yet do the same thing yourself when it suits you. Sounds like the very defiition of hypocrit.

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

Quote:
No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

And your view as an atheist can shed light on what?

That the bible is now, always has been and always will be a book of myth like the myriad other 'sacred scriptures' written over the millennia.

We're not on debatingzeus.com though are we? Your personal opinion has already been duly noted. The sun will "rise" tomorrow I'm betting.

AlAyeti wrote:
There are immutable facts "in the New Testamant" that seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat.

And what would these 'immutable facts' be that "seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat."

STD's are a grueling reality. But Jesus is talking about eternal things.

AlAyeti wrote:

But that makes them an atheist and not a Christian.

No it just makes them not a 'true christian' (tm) like you

That judgment is not mine to make. I'm just a skeptic that's all.

Civil liberties are in themselves a moral good. Just look up Immanuel Kant or any other Christian ethicist.

I choose to think for myself. Dead philosophers of yestercentury are truly meaningless in society that cannot judge right from wrong anymore.

Now you are being hypocritcal. Not only do you take your lead on moral and ethical matters from your interpretation of the bible (??thinking for yourself??), you have happily quoted long dead philosophers in other threads on this forum in order to support you opinions.

Wrong again Bernee, I present dead people that believe like I do to prove that I am neither a bigot or a shallow thinker. Most of whom I learned about after I searched for and found the truth. Many I was referred to after debating some anti-Christian.

Doesn't make you any less a hypocrit does it. You were attacking Magus for referring to 'a long dead philosopher' yet do the same thing yourself when it suits you. Sounds like the very defiition of hypocrit.

There is a big difference in letting others do your thinking for you. Though I admire John Locke's perspective on atheists, and reference him, I came to my conclusions based on the world of today. A world that can see insanity, just redefine it, and claim it is a new culture.

But I will take your criticism on this point as valid. My hypocrisy duly noted and admitted. I repent.

[bernee51]

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

Quote:
No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

And your view as an atheist can shed light on what?

That the bible is now, always has been and always will be a book of myth like the myriad other 'sacred scriptures' written over the millennia.

We're not on debatingzeus.com though are we? Your personal opinion has already been duly noted.

Ah but that it were just my personal opinion.

That the bible is a book of myth is an 'immutable fact'

AlAyeti wrote:
There are immutable facts "in the New Testamant" that seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat.

And what would these 'immutable facts' be that "seperate the wheat from the chaff and the tares from that wheat."

STD's are a grueling reality. But Jesus is talking about eternal things.

You are speaking in riddles (or is it tongues )

I'm not sure how STD's relate to immutable facts in the bible

AlAyeti wrote:

But that makes them an atheist and not a Christian.

No it just makes them not a 'true christian' (tm) like you

That judgment is not mine to make. I'm just a skeptic that's all.

skeptical of everything except....

There is a big difference in letting others do your thinking for you.

You really don't have to think about you views on morality do you...it is all clearly wriiten in the bible and the 5pm news.

But I will take your criticism on this point as valid. My hypocrisy duly noted and admitted. I repent.

Good boy. Don't let it happen again

[AlAyeti]

Is Conservatism antithetical to being a Christian?

There are immutable facts about God, Jesus and the Gospels. Liberals deny this.

Quote:
No - they are your immutable beliefs - not facts.

And your view as an atheist can shed light on what?

That the bible is now, always has been and always will be a book of myth like the myriad other 'sacred scriptures' written over the millennia.

We're not on debatingzeus.com though are we? Your personal opinion has already been duly noted.

Ah but that it were just my personal opinion.

That the bible is a book of myth is an 'immutable fact'

Your opinion is once again loud and clear. Be happy in your "self." I'm thinking that it is 2005 not because of Buddha or Krishna. I doubt that the immutabilty of the calendar will change anytime soon.

Quote:
STD's are a grueling reality. But Jesus is talking about eternal things.

You are speaking in riddles (or is it tongues )

Medical science. I don't speak in whatever toungues means.

I'm not sure how STD's relate to immutable facts in the bible

As ye sow (promiscuity, licentiousnees, hedonism) so shall ye scream when taking a pee through a gonorrhea infected urethra.

AlAyeti wrote:

That judgment is not mine to make. I'm just a skeptic that's all.

skeptical of everything except....

AlAyeti wrote:

There is a big difference in letting others do your thinking for you.

You really don't have to think about you views on morality do you...it is all clearly wriiten in the bible and the 5pm news.

You would be surprised at how much my views are drawn on literally empirical means. The 5pm news is proving the Bible right every single day.

AlAyeti wrote:

But I will take your criticism on this point as valid. My hypocrisy duly noted and admitted. I repent.

Good boy. Don't let it happen again

No chance that it won't happen again.

Only God is perfect.

I'm just a cyber arguer.

At least we've seen you be right once. There's hope for you yet.