Where did it go?

[Youkilledkenny]

With the exception of the occasional "wedding cake issue" or the like, it seems that the 'Christian vs. Gay" argument has died down a lot in the USA since gay marriage has become legal.
Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are, are Christians re-grouping, have Christians that complained about gay people gone on holiday or have Christians all of a sudden, become "OK" with gay people?
Or, perhaps, the media has found other causes to accost us with these days?
Or are there other reasons (sinister or benign)?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 20 by Bust Nak]


"And the customers are negatively affected because the baker in question refused to serve them based on their sexuality, should the baker get a pass because his is based on religion? I say if your job is too much of a negative impact and not compentated for by your pay, quit your job."

Baker is not demanding anything from prospective buyers of the cake.

Prospective buyers are demanding that the baker should do something
which is against his consciousness.

[Bust Nak]

Baker is not demanding anything from prospective buyers of the cake.

Prospective buyers are demanding that the baker should do something
which is against his consciousness.

And? That still doesn't tell me one way or the other whether you think the baker in question should get a pass for discrimination. Or perhaps you reject the very principle that a business can't refusing service to people on the basis of protected status, going back to the days where a store can say "no blakcs allowed"?

[Monta]

Baker is not demanding anything from prospective buyers of the cake.

Prospective buyers are demanding that the baker should do something
which is against his consciousness.

And? That still doesn't tell me one way or the other whether you think the baker in question should get a pass for discrimination. Or perhaps you reject the very principle that a business can't refusing service to people on the basis of protected status, going back to the days where a store can say "no blakcs allowed"?

The baker did not discriminate, he followed his conscience.
That is his human right, exercising his freedom of religion.

Just as the law no blacks allowed was unjust,
so no Christians allowed to live their faith is unjust.

Yes if I had a restaurant, the person who hadn't had a wash and smells would have to be told to leave.

[Bust Nak]

The baker did not discriminate, he followed his conscience.

These two are not mutually exclsive, the baker followed his conscience and in doing so, discriminated.

That is his human right, exercising his freedom of religion.

What about the human right of the people he refused to serve?

Just as the law no blacks allowed was unjust,
so no Christians allowed to live their faith is unjust.

What if someone's faith is not allowing black people to use his restaurant, what is the just way to resolve that conflict?

Yes if I had a restaurant, the person who hadn't had a wash and smells would have to be told to leave.

Wow. So gays and blacks are like smelly people who don't wash. Well done, way to go with your choice of analogy.

[Monta]

The baker did not discriminate, he followed his conscience.

These two are not mutually exclsive, the baker followed his conscience and in doing so, discriminated.

Monta: The buyer by accusations discriminated against the baker, the baker discriminated the cake not the buyer. Baker was happy to bake him a different cake.

That is his human right, exercising his freedom of religion.

What about the human right of the people he refused to serve?

Monta: Human right to what, to compell another person doing something against his will?

Just as the law no blacks allowed was unjust,
so no Christians allowed to live their faith is unjust.

What if someone's faith is not allowing black people to use his restaurant, what is the just way to resolve that conflict?

Monta: If restauraneur has those feeling he should look for another job where that would not come into question.

Yes if I had a restaurant, the person who hadn't had a wash and smells would have to be told to leave.

Wow. So gays and blacks are like smelly people who don't wash. Well done, way to go with your choice of analogy.

Monta: That was no comparison from my part.

[JP Cusick]

With the exception of the occasional "wedding cake issue" or the like, it seems that the 'Christian vs. Gay" argument has died down a lot in the USA since gay marriage has become legal.
Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are, are Christians re-grouping, have Christians that complained about gay people gone on holiday or have Christians all of a sudden, become "OK" with gay people?
Or, perhaps, the media has found other causes to accost us with these days?
Or are there other reasons (sinister or benign)?

In Christianity it is a big point just to testify and to give witness, and if the evil doer continues then the Christian duty is done.

If we tell a drunkard to stop the booze and they go drinking again - then we did our job, and we let the drunkard go ahead and screw their self.

The homosexuals were told that it was wrong and they go do it anyway then that is it.

It was never an attempt to hurt the homosexuals - it was trying to save them.

If we tell some person that their ship is sinking and they do not believe it then they drown by their own mistake, and our duty is fulfilled.

Getting the public marriages was insane, as like they voluntarily register as sex offenders, but we tried to tell them not to do it.

The wedding cake issue will not happen again, because the witness and testimony is now given and done.

[Bust Nak]

The buyer by accusations discriminated against the baker, the baker discriminated the cake not the buyer. Baker was happy to bake him a different cake.

The lower courts has established that the baker were happy to bake the same cake for another couple, without requiring them to select a different cake, thus demostrating that it was about the customers and not the cake. Does this information change your view on who is disciminating against whom?

Human right to what, to compell another person doing something against his will?

To be freed from discrimination based on their sexuality, which does mean compelling another person doing something against his will in this case.

If restauraneur has those feeling he should look for another job where that would not come into question.

This would be ideal, the baker in question should not have been in the cake making business, but it hasn't happened. So the question remains, a black couple has just entered the restaurant and the restauraneur's conscience is telling him to refuse them. How is this conflict to be resolved justly?

That was no comparison from my part.

Then why did you bring it up in the first place, if not meant as an analogy?

[Bust Nak]

If we tell some person that their ship is sinking and they do not believe it then they drown by their own mistake, and our duty is fulfilled.

...

The wedding cake issue will not happen again, because the witness and testimony is now given and done.

If only that was true. Many Christians just can't help but keep giving witness and testimony even when it was clear that the message was heard but rejected - your duty is done, you can stop any time, now would be great.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 27 by Bust Nak]


"To be freed from discrimination based on their sexuality, which does mean compelling another person doing something against his will in this case. "

No one's sexuality is written on their forehead. Why do they see it important to advertise it to the world what they are.
I really do not care what they do but as a human being and not a herd of sheep, I have conscience and can refuse to like or not, love or not.

Perhaps one day we can all be given a zombie to just go with a crowd without using our mind to think for ourselves.

[Tcg]

Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are, are Christians re-grouping, have Christians that complained about gay people gone on holiday or have Christians all of a sudden, become "OK" with gay people?

Based on the irrational anti-gay statements I have read on this forum and others like it, I'd say the complaint remains the same with many hardliners. The fact that mass media has lost interest in reporting these anti-gay attitudes doesn't necessarily mean those attitudes have changed or diminished to a significant degree.

The encouraging news is that some Christian denominations are becoming more open to gays and some are enlightened enough to accept gays as members, leaders, and clergy. Hopefully this trend will continue and even increase, but sadly, proper moral acceptance may take decades.